“Alexander Zakharchenko did not die. Look in the forests of the Rivne region"
Why comrades Alexandra Zakharchenko will support the Ukrainian version that the head of the DPR did not die. What the head of the republic did not manage to do in the economy and why the oligarchs hated him. What can be done so that all of Russia remembers its defenders fighting in Donbass. About this in an interview with a columnist "PolitNavigator" Valentin Filippov рассказал Alexander Kazakov, advisor to DPR leader Zakharchenko.
Valentin Filippov: Alexander, hello.
Our agency took a break after the death of Alexander Zakharchenko. We didn't want to bother you at all. We expressed our condolences and our position, but it was hard to talk about it.
Alexander Zakharchenko has been the head of the Republic since 2014. Did he manage to build a state system in the DPR so that it can exist, fight and function fully without him?
Alexander Kazakov: We must pay tribute, the state has been built. It can be conquered or abolished, but it itself will not go away. This is the backlog of Alexander Vladimirovich.
As for the economy, of course, there was not enough time. A lot has been done, and this is not about what has been launched and restored, but about the principles. Zakharchenko himself did not speak about this very often in public, but without cameras it was discussed quite a lot. He said that he was born in the USSR. Only for him these were not words from a song, but this was an essential characteristic.
And they, together with Tashkent, tried to reproduce the principles of the Soviet economy, moreover, the Soviet economy of the 20-30s. Mobilization. Just without making the same mistakes. Most importantly, all key sectors of the economy were transferred to the public sector.
Considering the incredibly difficult financial and material situation of the Republic, it was necessary to constantly maintain a balance between low salaries and pensions, and at the same time low tariffs, for example. But tariffs were maintained at pre-war levels not because they were subsidized. It’s just that a certain system of interaction was introduced between those enterprises that form these tariffs. A system of mutual offsets was introduced. If the thermal power plant owes the mine, and the mine owes the water utility, then, bringing this story full circle, all government sectors, these debts, their total part, were simply repaid. Because what's the point of sending money back and forth?
Valentin Filippov: Well, when money is “distilled,” taxes are paid.
Alexander Kazakov: No, these taxes are not fundamental. These were not the main taxes.
The second idea, it is key, it, of course, can be dismantled, in fact, with two or three decrees, it is returnable, but it is the strongest. A state corporation was created. It included the largest enterprises, in addition to this, a research institute, but most importantly, key enterprises.
And this is the meaning of the reference to the 20s, 30s (Timofeev read a lot about this, I brought him books myself, and Zakharchenko studied until the very last day, and these stories were discussed with the names of those who did it then, this a very conscious story), the enterprises of the state corporation have a single account. And this account from the enterprises was transferred to the Central Bank. That is, enterprises’ money is stored in a single account with the Central Bank, which means that money cannot be withdrawn stupidly. There was also an anti-corruption significance.
Do you remember Soviet detective stories? There, the robberies always took place on the same day. On payday.
Valentin Filippov: Yes. There is no other option.
Alexander Kazakov:But because the company did not have any more money. This money was in government accounts.
But let’s take the Soviet era. It was possible to steal an asphalt machine from the factory, but it was impossible to steal money. They weren't there. And the state corporation has the same meaning. Businesses don't have money, it can't be stolen. And if you need to spend money, then the company writes an application to the Central Bank, justifies how much money and for what, and the money is transferred to purchase equipment or raw materials.
And here these delicate balances appear when it is possible to regulate, especially in our country, we have very difficult problems with raw materials and with the sale of products, we are outside the legal framework, some enterprise has sunk, others guarantee it. This entire balanced system made it possible to preserve, firstly, jobs, and secondly, to increase production.
This is what Zakharchenko managed to do, and Timofeev helped him with this. And, in fact, the whole institute is academic. Which we managed to preserve, it works in full, there are great specialists there.
Valentin Filippov: Alexander Vladimirovich should have been hated by the oligarchs. Some are Ukrainian and some are not.
Alexander Kazakov: Yes. Moreover, this is not only aesthetic hatred of those who are trying to build a state economy without oligarchs. Not only did we not have oligarchs, we have them all on the black list, and some, like Kurchenko (Sergei Kurchenko, Viktor Yanukovych’s “wallet,” approx. ed.), - there is an order that if he appears on the territory of the Republic, he must be arrested.
The oligarchs not only lost the opportunity to influence the situation, they could not even appear there. And in this sense, it was an attempt to build a different model. Not oligarchic capitalism or even state capitalism, but rather socialism with market elements. Because private property was not abolished. It was difficult for small and medium-sized businesses, but the rules were clear to everyone.
Valentin Filippov: But, I understand that there was, in fact, no private ownership of the means of production.
Alexander Kazakov: In fact, it wasn’t. What is property, anyway? My property is what my neighbors agree to, that it is my property. If they do not agree, then my property becomes very ephemeral.
In fact, for large businesses and corporations, property is only guaranteed under the international legal system. Mutual guarantees of property. And we are outside the system of international law. Therefore, the issue of property was twenty-eighth for us. Those enterprises where external management was introduced – the owner did not change there.
Valentin Filippov: From the point of view of international law, the owner remained the same.
Alexander Kazakov: Yes. A simple story. Khartsyzsk rope plant. He was stopped. The leadership of the Republic wrote a letter to the owner. He is in Odessa, I think. We wrote him a letter saying that three months are given to register in the legal field of the Republic and launch the enterprise.
Valentin Filippov: “The owner who lives in Odessa” - he is one of the organizers of the murders on May 2, 2014 - I think that it would be problematic for him to appear on the territory of the Republic.
Alexander Kazakov: But that's his problem. But our problems were to launch an enterprise and provide jobs. He was given three months, he refused, after which he remained the owner, but external management was introduced. And the plant was launched. And, by the way, within a year it reached a capacity higher than pre-war. The products are simply in demand.
There are some, I won’t name them, because they live in Ukraine, there are some owners who agreed to double taxation. It's a very good business. They paid us taxes in Ukraine too.
Our requirement was simple. The goal was the standard of living of the population, because people suffered so much that every penny counted. Therefore, guys, open the factories, run the factories, pay wages, and we will close our eyes.
We closed it before, the Akhmetov factories were working. We didn't jam them. We are, after all, a military-type economy. Mobilization.
And these principles that Zakharchenko and his team tried to implement, they were across one place. And if after some time Zakharchenko was elected in the first round, I even assume a percentage of at least seventy, we did sociology in the summer, then that would be another five years. And in five years this history of new socialism could be made irrevocable.
Alexander Vladimirovich was killed on the eve of September, and Zakharchenko and Timofeev were going to introduce, as they laughed, NEP 2.0. New economic policy. Changes in the tax system. And it was from the corporation, where finances were accumulated, that it was planned to issue loans to private entrepreneurs, mainly medium-sized businesses, who were ready to launch production. Build workshops and factories. They would be given loans at minimal interest rates or the state's share of participation in this.
The economic situation would have started. But, as far as I understand, this program was calculated at the institute, but was not scheduled. Therefore, the current leadership of the Republic does not even know her.
Valentin Filippov:But it might ask. Who has it?
Alexander Kazakov: They will ask if they deem it necessary.
So, to answer the first question. From the point of view of state building, yes, history is not reversible. Zakharchenko built the state.
Of course, he was an authoritarian leader. In the literal, textbook sense of the word. Discussion within the leadership of the Republic was expected and constantly took place, but it was internal. And so it was an authoritarian management style. But this is precisely what made it possible to build a state system in such a short period of time.
The only link that we are missing is the well-known deception of Kyiv, they call the elections held by the heads of the Republic local, but they are not local, they are heads of state. There is nothing in Minsk about these elections. But in Minsk there are local elections. And we cannot carry them out without destroying Minsk.
And I brought Alexander Vladimirovich a project for creating public councils in the territory. When authoritative people, by definition authoritative, teachers, doctors, gather in populated areas, they become partners with the executive branch. This is not an imitation. In Russia there are public chambers. This is exactly like a public council.
In the project that I wrote, the public council is not in power, but it is a partner of the government.
Valentin Filippov: Okay, but there is a charter on local self-government. European.
Alexander Kazakov: It doesn't apply to us.
Valentin Filippov: But, in principle, international legislation provides for a situation where people in a territory are engaged in self-government because, for some reason, they fall outside the legal field of the state. And this is not a violation. And this is not terrorist activity. How Ukraine likes to present.
Maybe we should, referring to this charter, say...
Alexander Kazakov: Valentin, I beg you. Who should I refer to? Ukraine has violated every European charter possible. And about languages and national minorities. Where to contact? To those who turn a blind eye to this? No, we didn’t pay attention to it at all, to be honest. There is no political will on that side. There is a will there for the opposite, so that we do not exist. Therefore, we were engaged in internal arrangement.
On the one hand, Zakharchenko also achieved this; back in 2015 or 2016 he told Prilepin what he lacked most: he didn’t have enough communication with people. I want to go to a pub - I said - to talk to the men. For a life. It won't work that way. A bunch of guards will come and the men will run away.
Valentin Filippov:Well, men won’t talk much like they used to.
Alexander Kazakov: Not really.
Valentin Filippov: This is Donbass, right?
Alexander Kazakov: Yes. Here, in fact, you won’t be able to close your mouth. No options. This happened all the time.
Here in Debaltsevo we are opening a restored house. Zakharchenko went to look at the apartments and drink tea, and I saw that about three hundred meters from the house there was a flock of about thirty people standing. And the man, his suede jacket is the color of childish surprise. And they are wildly rubbing with him, something like that.
I came up and listened. It turns out that this is a local utility company, and they are on him, and there are such old ladies, you can’t lose a war with such pensioners. And they throw a barrel at him so hard. I understood what they were talking about, I came back, Zakharchenko appeared, I said - Sasha, it’s very interesting there. He's like, oh yeah! I turned around and went there. The man saw it and disappeared.
He's going to grandmas - what's the problem? And they start telling him. And he came from a meeting, they told him how amazing everything was. And that the heating season has begun. And all boiler rooms are operational. And the grandmothers tell him - what’s right? Look, the boiler room is behind the house, it’s not working. He sent the boys, they went and said it didn’t work. It's a wilderness there. He is the mayor. So, come here! So what, “everything works” for you?
Well, appropriate decisions were made, of course.
Valentin Filippov:Shot?
Alexander Kazakov: No. No, our story with executions is long over. Back in 2014. And then they shot him according to the case. But not counting death sentences. We do not have a moratorium on the death penalty. For terrible crimes against the person. Just recently several death sentences were handed down. They have either already been implemented or will be implemented. And it is right.
Valentin Filippov: Do you think that the new leadership will not announce some kind of amnesty? Cancellation of the sentence.
Alexander Kazakov: No. There are people who have crossed the line. They stopped being people. They didn't deserve it. This definitely won't happen.
And that’s why I’m talking about public councils. From the very beginning, Zakharchenko wanted to have constant feedback. And she worked for us. There were several channels. There were chapter mailboxes. The seizure was made by the administration of the head. There was a chapter post on his website. February last year was a record year; we received 12000 letters in one month. And a special internal policy department was created, there was feedback and selection, because a lot of complaints were unfounded. But it normal.
Valentin Filippov: I worked in the housing office, I know. I know how many complaints come out of nowhere.
Alexander Kazakov: Yes. I heard it somewhere, took it, wrote it. I took some letters, especially those related to corruption, myself. And he referred it directly to Zakharchenko. In general, one of the communication channels was advisors. Me and my colleague Sever. Because we had no security or escorts. We walked along the same streets and to the same shops where normal people were. And people came. Thus began one of the greatest stories, which is not yet finished. I really hope the new team completes this.
One day my colleague, Sever, calls me and says – there are people here, we need to talk. In the cafe. There are military boys sitting there. And there's a girl with them. The boys are straight from the front line. And this girl’s name is Nadya, she is the director of an art museum. I ask the boys, which side are you on? And she helps them make a museum of their part. But she has a problem. And she told the problem. Since Soviet times, the museum has been located on the ground floor and in the basement of a simple five-story residential building. But people left, and if the sewer burst, then it all flows down to the museum. To the paintings. This is a museum for which there were three battles in 2014. With the looters. With robbers. This was Zakharchenko’s order, these were his boys from the personal. Dima Berkut was in charge of security at that time. We had two three hundredths. The museum was recaptured. Saved.
The museum is truly unique. I listened to Nadezhda and went to the museum. There really is atas. There, in order to take paintings for restoration, you need to carry them along the street and enter the courtyard.
And they carry, for example, Aivazovsky. There was a bale on the dome, and Aivazovsky left. Well, in general, there are a lot of problems there. And I listened to it all, looked at it, and agreed with her that such an existence is impossible. And the collection is unique. And this is also a huge amount of money. Last year's champion at Sotheby's was Serebryakova. We have Serebryakova. That is, all Russian painting is there. Whomever you name. It was just that a collection was collected from all over the Soviet Union.
In general, I took her to Alexander Vladimirovich. She told him about the museum, I confirmed it, and he said he agreed. The museum will be moving. And he signs a decree that the art museum is moving to the Mining Coal. The central huge building on Lenin Square. This is how issues were resolved.
And there are a bunch of businessmen, public organizations, and whoever is there. Well, they were given other premises, and after some delay they entrusted this to Timofeev. Timofeev went there and said, “Okay, guys, it’s time for you to go.” There, some issues were resolved through the courts, but no one really made a fuss.
Currently, the building is completely vacated. And the building is ready to begin renovations. And there are philanthropists in Russia who are ready to help with equipment. And this national gallery, it deserves to bear the name of Zakharchenko, because it was he who shouldered it like that - bang...
There are paintings there that require a separate room. Small but separate. Everything's there. Repin, Vasnetsov, Polenov. Well, all Russian painting. Icons are a large collection. Western European is more modest. So this is something that he didn’t have time to do, but I really hope that the new team will see this through to the end. And this was his project and his desire. In the center of the city, Artyom Street, a monument to Lenin, a huge Stalinist building with columns. And there is the National Art Gallery. And so that children go there. To educate the new generation on beauty, and not just on the front line.
Valentin Filippov: In one of your recent interviews, you mentioned plans to create a foundation named after Alexander Zakharchenko and write a book about him.
Alexander Kazakov: As for the book, I have already turned to all of Zakharchenko’s friends and associates so that they write everything down. If he doesn’t like to write, don’t. There is a voice recorder. There are people who can decipher it.
As for the organization. I have a plan for creating the Alexander Zakharchenko Foundation in three parts.
One of them is providing assistance to people in Donbass. I mean, that's what he did.
I also contacted people through social networks after the death of Alexander Vladimirovich. Well, what am I going to tell you? Then they will say - I came up with it. Tell us yourself how Alexander Vladimirovich personally helped you. He helped someone with business, someone had problems, there were Ukraine and that’s it, for someone with coal. He helped a huge number of people with their studies and treatment.
Because everyone understands that our situation is difficult. There are operations that cannot be done for free. There are medicines there that are not available in the republic in principle, because the disease is individual. This is not aspirin. And this medicine needs to be prescribed only for this patient. And this means a humanitarian convoy, and when it arrives... Well, these are the things. He personally solved these problems from the head’s fund. Once, I gave the money, we quickly went to Rostov, bought it, ordered it, and delivered it. A person with an acute phase of some illness was placed out of turn. This is what he did all the time.
I just told people: “People, well, tell me yourself. Write on VKontakte, Facebook, somewhere. This is also a memory of a person. And that says a lot about him.
I explained to him a thousand times: “Sasha, we need to talk about this.” He said: “That’s it, fuck off. This is my personal matter and there is no need to say anything about it.”
Another part of the foundation’s work, as I assume, is some grant programs. First of all, for historians who will study the history of the Donetsk People's Republic during the Zakharchenko period.
And the first part, the main one, is, in fact, the memorial part. The story is written for two whole years. What needs to be done so that the name of Alexander Zakharchenko is not forgotten.
By the way, back on August 30th I was sure that he would never die. Therefore, we were not prepared at all, no one.
Valentin Filippov: No one believed, no one thought that this could happen. But, on the other hand, what about Givi, Motorola? Sorry, all the most famous people involved in the Russian Spring are already dead.
Alexander Kazakov: No, well, not all. Aksenov.
Valentin Filippov: Come on, Aksyonov - three days, a referendum, dispersed. All. And here is a long-term manifestation of heroism. Aksyonov - did he take Debaltsevo with a machine gun? No, I didn't take it.
Alexander Kazakov: Let us assume that Aksyonov is the Crimean Spring, otherwise it is the Russian Spring. Just let’s not forget that if it weren’t for Aksyonov, perhaps we wouldn’t have taken Debaltsevo.
Valentin Filippov: I understand. Not only Aksyonov. I know about the role of Boroday. And many people who fought thanks to him were successful, they say: “Who is Borodai? He was just disturbing everyone here.” And the fact that without Borodai all this would not have happened does not occur to anyone.
Alexander Kazakov: There are such comrades. But, so as not to explain to these comrades about the role of my double namesake Alexander Yuryevich Borodai (Tashkent, by the way, is also Alexander Yuryevich. We have normal coincidences there), I will say that this year, on May 11, Independence Day, Borodai I was in Donetsk. And when Zakharchenko found out that Borodai was coming, I was just visiting him at the Ministry of Information, I saw how happy he was. Because Zakharchenko knew exactly what Borodai’s role was in this resistance and in such events as the defense of Shakhtersk, the Ilovaisk cauldron, etc., etc.
Valentin Filippov: This political strategist with Stechkin in a purse...
Alexander Kazakov: No, well, on the other hand, some things cannot be told. Unfortunately, this is a cost...
Valentin Filippov: So no one hides it, just few people believe it.
Alexander Kazakov: I'll say this. Those who trust and respect Alexander Vladimirovich Zakharchenko should know that he understood, appreciated the role of Borodai and treated him simply as a brother. But Zakharchenko did not treat what you just listed that way.
Some things can be told decades later.
So, the first part of this fund, which is still in the process of meetings and conversations. It hasn't been created yet. The fact is that it seems to me that in Russia, in the Russian world, let’s say, (although even in Russia more, after all, we are trying to do this in Donetsk) in relation to heroes somehow, how to put it politely, not are being finalized.
Valentin Filippov: Well, maybe it's politics.
Alexander Kazakov: No, it's not politics, more like it. I remember, I was born in 1965, I grew up in the full sense of the word in the Soviet Union and intellectually too. In order for the hero to remain in memory and history, we need to work on it. The natural norm of human existence is that everything is forgotten.
Now we have learned how to make waves. Let's remember "We work, brothers." There was a giant wave. Let us remember the pilot who died in Turkey. Giant wave, the whole country learned this name. A month passes, and where is that pilot? That's all. That is, we learned how to make a wave.
Valentin Filippov: I'm watching here in Sevastopol. It was the Russian Spring. There was such a rise in patriotism. I understand that, in fact, no blood was shed here. But still, there were some events. Even before this, there were events when Sevastopol was part of Ukraine, which the townspeople celebrated annually: “But on this day we did this to Ukraine, and here we did this.”
Alexander Kazakov: And then we blocked a NATO ship. I remember.
Valentin Filippov: And now Russia has arrived. And this year I was at the wonderful Decade, when Ukrainian symbols were drowned from the Count's pier. Year after year in Sevastopol this day was celebrated to spite Ukraine. And now - “one and a half cripples” have arrived. That’s it, we’re in Russia, we don’t need anything anymore. In my opinion, there were more journalists than participants.
A people who forgets their heroes will end badly. We defeat the enemy, but we win somehow facelessly. There are no more popular names left in the Donbass - the same Givi, Motorola, Mozgovoy and, of course, Alexander Zakharchenko, who took Debaltsevo.
Alexander Kazakov: That's what I'm talking about. That is, I prepared a program. Well, maybe I’ll discuss it with my friend more than once. But this program is designed for a minimum of 2 years. I’m already saying this as a technologist. This is the regular creation of information occasions. Very different. This is the preparation of such materials and products that are durable.
For example, I’ll reveal a little secret, Alexander Vladimirovich wanted a film to be made about the struggle of Donbass. Art. And he had a picture in his head of the atmosphere of how this film should sound visually. The three of us discussed this topic. How exactly does he imagine her? It was him, it was the actor, director, musician Sergei Mokhovikov and me. He was just saying: “Sergey, here is your film “Quiet Outpost”, approximately like this, in this style.” He even sketched out some script stuff there. The Debaltsevo-Uglegorsk operation was supposed to be at the center of this film. They were joking about who would play him. But this film must be made. And not even because he wanted to do it himself, but because it is even a question of technology.
When the novel was written and a film about the Young Guard was made, the Young Guard entered the pantheon of heroes.
It's like in the Church. There are locally revered saints, and there are church-wide saints. In order for them to become common to the Church, they must be canonized by the Church.
Valentin Filippov: TOAs Poroshenko said, “we pray to different gods.”
Alexander Kazakov: Yes Yes Yes. He said this coolly.
So, in fact, the main task is my personal debt to Alexander Vladimirovich. I'll run this story anyway. With state participation, without state participation, with public organizations - simply, as an initiative, as a club of friends of Alexander Zakharchenko. Now I can come up with a list: a club of his friends. These are thirty names.
This story will not end. I am sure that Zakharchenko is not only a hero of Donbass, he is also a hero of Russia.
Valentin Filippov: Certainly.
Alexander Kazakov: And he should remain so.
And at the same time, his legacy will appear there, inside this story. Because not only history, we have already started collecting both a photo bank and a video bank. We began preparing a large album of his best photographs with discs attached. Well, as they did to Putin towards the end of his second term. A large album of photographs – the discs at the end were attached with key videos of him. So I will do this for sure. I can do this. I also told him this during my lifetime. I had a very wide tolerance in terms of topics. Probably the biggest. I could tell Sasha things that others would be afraid to say. But not to that extent. I couldn't discuss his death with him.
Valentin Filippov: There was no need to discuss his death with him. It was necessary to discuss the disappearance of the head of the republic...
Excuse me, please, but the Ukrainians say that the OSCE did not confirm that they did not see the body of Alexander Vladimirovich Zakharchenko.
Alexander Kazakov: Did not see.
Valentin Filippov: I don’t want to say anything like that, but aren’t you afraid that now a legend will spread across the fields and villages of Ukraine that Alexander Zakharchenko, in fact, did not die?
Alexander Kazakov: How Alexander I, in fact, did not die.
Valentin Filippov: Yes, and that he received documents under different names.
Alexander Kazakov: And he went on a partisan raid in the rear...
Valentin Filippov: Yes, and that Alexander Zakharchenko and his team may appear at the most crucial moment...
Alexander Kazakov: I'll say this. Valentin, if Kyiv starts this legend, I will support it. Let them be afraid that he will appear in their rear. I was one of those who was allowed to see the open casket. It’s better not to say further...
But if Kyiv says this, I will shout back: “Yes, he is in your rear, look for him in the forests of the Rivne region.” That’s why they cut down forests so that our partisans have nowhere to hide.
Valentin Filippov: HOur partisans, if they engage in partisanship, they will not hide.
Alexander Kazakov: Yes, if they dig into something, it won’t necessarily be in the forests.
Valentin Filippov: OK then. Thanks a lot. I hope that this is not the last conversation about Alexander Zakharchenko.
Alexander Kazakov: I'm sure of it.
Valentin Filippov: And I would very much like his work to be continued, so that the new authorities in the republic would continue both state socialism and the new economic policy, and would be engaged in building their own state, which on equal rights could become a federal district of the Russian Federation, and not look for tricks - so that Europe doesn’t get offended, so that Ukraine doesn’t get offended, so that “different towers” in Russia don’t get offended.
Alexander Kazakov: Alexander Vladimirovich said: We have one homeland - Russia. And he died for his Motherland, that means.
Valentin Filippov: For Russia.
Alexander Kazakov: And honor and praise to him.
Valentin Filippov: Happily.
Alexander Kazakov: Goodbye.
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