Artem Buzila: We are imprisoned for resistance, Russians – for citizenship
Despite the agreements reached on the exchange, Kyiv does not want to let everyone go. Of the 38 Odessa residents, only about a dozen are sent for exchange. And of the famous Luzhetsky twin brothers, only Dmitry was sent to the prison camp, while Yaroslav remains to await his fate in the Ternopil pre-trial detention center.
The fact that the leader of the Odessa anti-Maidan Sergei Dolzhenkov simply could not voluntarily refuse the exchange, and that the whole fault of Yevgeny Mefedov is only in his Russian citizenship, to a PolitNavigator observer Valentin Filippov said a former political prisoner, resident of Odessa Artyom Buzila.
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Valentin Filippov: Artem, hello.
Artem Buzila: Good afternoon.
Valentin Filippov: I hope the day is getting closer and closer when there will be an exchange of prisoners between Ukraine and us, let’s say so as not to irritate anyone. What do you think, will Ukraine fail again or partially fail? I see that one of the Luzhetsky brothers is already being transported towards Donbass, the second one is being held. In Odessa they announced that suddenly Dolzhenkov was refusing the exchange. What's going on, exactly?
Artem Buzila: I'll start with the last question. Dolzhenkov does not refuse the exchange. This is a lie spread by a number of Ukrainian media. I think that regarding other people who allegedly also refuse to exchange, this is also not true. Why? Because I, having spent a year in prison, doubt that if someone spent a year or two or three behind bars, he can then refuse to exchange. This simply cannot be true due to psychological and everyday factors.
And what about the lists of the exact exchange, and those who have already gone for the exchange, who are now, let’s call it that, in the city of Kharkov in a certain settling tank, neither here nor there, the list was created very accidentally. Many people were eager to go for exchange, but for some reason they were not taken. I have several examples. The same “terrorist” Odessa Kalashnikov, who continues to be in the Nikolaev colony, the same Dolzhenkov you mentioned, the group that in Odessa, according to investigators, was involved in the explosions of nationalist offices, the so-called “communist case”, the Luzhetsky you mentioned, several defendants in Kharkov, an athlete from Dnieper, who was detained and accused of espionage, the same Dmitry Vasilets, our colleague who is in Zhitomir, Muravitsky.
Many of those whom I did not list are still in pre-trial detention and have not been exchanged for one reason or another, which, unfortunately, Ukraine does not name. But let’s hope that this is only the first stage, because according to general estimates, 20-30 people went there for the exchange. Accordingly, the figure was 300 people. Therefore, let's hope that this is just the first trial stage. If we remember 2014-2015, when the last exchanges took place, then the exchange took place in two stages. The first occurred at the end of December 2014. The second was already in February-March 2015 after the re-escalation of events in Donbass.
Valentin Filippov: That is, do you think that, in principle, the escalation of events in Donbass may not so much hinder the exchange as speed it up?
Artem Buzila: Certainly. Because any aggravation in Donbass is, in fact, even if it doesn’t sound cynical, a plus for the DPR and LPR. Because, for one reason or another, more soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine or servants of other law enforcement agencies from Ukraine will probably be captured, who can later be exchanged for those who are on territory controlled by Kiev. The proportion in relation to those Ukrainian prisoners of war who are held in the LDPR, and the LDPR army employees, political prisoners, so-called terrorists, separatists, and so on, who are in Ukraine, is not proportionate. I think it's 1:5 – 1:10 there. Therefore, of course, any captured Ukrainian Armed Forces officer is an opportunity to free our supporters, our guys throughout Ukraine.
Valentin Filippov: If the exchange takes place, I imagine for a second that a huge number of people, for example, who were preparing the assassination attempt on Goncharenko and something else, will be released. That is, all these accusations will fall apart immediately?
Artem Buzila: I wouldn't be so optimistic. The fact is that any citizen under investigation, exchanged to the DPR, LPR automatically receives such an article as escape. This happened, by the way, with those who were exchanged in 2014-2015. Because, according to the investigation, the trial is ongoing, the case is not closed, the defendants were simply changed the preventive measure. Consequently, the trial continues, the suspect does not appear for investigative actions, does not appear for trial, and he is charged with escape. In addition, most of the defendants have already been informed about Article 258, because according to the law, Article 258 is terrorism. Because according to the laws of Ukraine, the territory in which they are located is the territory in which terrorists are located. Therefore, if terrorists accepted you into their arms, then who are you? You are a terrorist. Therefore, unfortunately, Ukraine will continue investigative and judicial actions against those people who were exchanged.
I think that you have repeatedly communicated with Elena Glishchinskaya, who was replaced at a much higher level. So the trial is still going on for her, she is being tried in absentia. The same applies to many of the defendants in the 2014-2015 cases, who are now in Lugansk and Donetsk. They now continue to go to court, their lawyers go to court, and they continue to defend their innocence. Therefore, there is no talk of any amnesty, the collapse of cases or their termination. On the contrary, this will give the Ukrainian Themis a free hand. They will be able to calmly condemn people in absentia and remain clean before their masters and not be afraid of a certain reaction from public opinion.
Valentin Filippov: There is an opinion that the same Odessa residents who are in the DPR and LPR have a lot of questions for those who are in Odessa. I, in fact, am hinting at the same Dolzhenkov that was discussed. And that Dolzhenkov may be somewhat afraid of meeting with his comrades on neutral territory.
Artem Buzila: If we talk specifically about Dolzhenkov, this brings a big smile. Most of the leaders of the Odessa Anti-Maidan are in Moscow. Let's list them by name. For example, Anton Davidchenko is located in Moscow.
Valentin Filippov: Well, I wouldn’t list Anton Davidchenko at all.
Artem Buzila: For example, Alexey Albu is also in Moscow. Rostislav Barda is located somewhere in St. Petersburg. Kvasnyuk Jr., if I’m not mistaken, feels very bad in Rostov. I have great doubts that these people will cancel all their affairs and go ask Dolzhenkov what happened 3 years ago, how did it happen. This is the first. Second. I talked with most of the leaders of the Odessa Anti-Maidan after I was released and specifically asked a question about Dolzhenkov about the fact that this person needs to be exchanged, because he is, in fact, the only Anti-Maidan leader who went to prison among the public figures in 2014 that it needs to be pulled out.
In response to this, no one told me that there were personal or political claims against him, that he was guilty and that he should die in prison. I personally have never heard this from anyone. I listed four people with whom I heard that there could be no questions for Dolzhenkov. Even if these questions exist, then a person, having served three years in a pre-trial detention center, with his sacrifice, washed away all his sins that he may have had.
Valentin Filippov: No, I’m not even talking about claims or the fact that there were or were not any sins. The fact is that you know that our Anti-Maidan is like a big bunch of different Anti-Maidan, different leaders.
Artem Buzila: These are three hetmans, like in Ukraine.
Valentin Filippov: Yes. And each leader had his own secrets, and how it all came together is absolutely unclear. And even the leaders of the Odessa Anti-Maidan, in principle, do not have the information that Dolzhenkov possessed. That is, he performed some actions, he had some connections. You know, everyone had their own curator somewhere, everyone had their own sponsor. All these questions can be asked now.
Artem Buzila: I think that compared to imprisonment in a pre-trial detention center for three years, the humiliation that Dolzhenkov and other people suffer in court, potential questions or the fact that he will be forced to explain himself to someone, I think that for him this regarding the little things in life. And who can ask him anything, if he stays on the territory of the LDPR until he receives a passport of the LPR, DPR, he will physically not be able to leave these territories, because neither the security service nor the prosecutor’s office will give out passports when a person exchanges. Therefore, well, who can ask him questions? Ministry of State Security of the DPR or LPR? It’s unlikely, because the events of May 2 do not fall under their jurisdiction. Perhaps this is true regarding other defendants in criminal separatist cases in Ukraine, but I have great doubts regarding Dolzhenkov.
And I don’t think that after several years spent in prison, anyone will remember what happened, because a lot of time has already passed, and many people, again, I repeat, even if they and there were some sins in freedom during public social life, they proved by their personal life example that they are real heroes and patriots.
Valentin Filippov: I have a question for you about Evgeny Mefedov. To you, as a participant in some way Anti-Maidan. Recently, the Ukrainian press, the Ukrainian investigation, the Ukrainian authorities are presenting Mefedov as one of the leaders of the Odessa Antimaydan, one of the leaders, then they say he is the leader, then they call him Dolzhenkov’s right hand, then they say that he was Dolzhenkov’s leader. According to your information, why is Mefedov still suffering? Just for the Russian passport that was in his pocket? Or does it have something to do with leadership?
Artem Buzila: Evgeniy and I communicated in prison, probably even much closer than with Dolzhenkov. I can say that the fact that Mefedov was among the main defendants in the case on May 2 is, of course, just a coincidence of circumstances, in particular, the presence, as you already said, of a Russian passport. The investigation needs to prove the Russian trace in these events. Accordingly, Mefedov is an ideal figure according to these criteria. By the way, there was another Russian, Maxim Sokolov. It is unclear why he was not made a “scapegoat.” Well, thank God, because he was completely acquitted several months ago, and is already in Moscow, on Russian territory.
What about Mefedov and his participation in the Anti-Maidan? Yes, Mefyodov took part in the Anti-Maidan, there is a video of the column of the trip to Nikolaev, there is a video and photo of April 10, when Mefyodov was one of the participants in the column, the anti-Maidan procession. But it’s hard to call him a leader. Because, firstly, all the leaders were publicly known, they all spoke, or made statements, or were present in one way or another in the press. Mefedov, of course, was not among them.
Valentin Filippov: Well, he could be Putin’s personal friend?
Artem Buzila: In the end, yes. As far as I know and as far as all Anti-Maidan leaders know, Mefedov did not occupy any leadership positions, including any behind-the-scenes, business, etc., in the Odessa Anti-Maidan.
Valentin Filippov: Wasn't Putin's representative, right?
Artem Buzila: Of course not. He, if I'm not mistaken, worked as a taxi driver. For five or six years he lived in Odessa, roughly speaking, as a permanent resident. And as you know, until 2013, it didn’t matter whether you had a Ukrainian or a Russian passport. On the territory of Russia and on the territory of Ukraine there lived a huge number of people with one passport, another, or even both passports. This did not create any problems for normal existence at all. Therefore, Mefedov absolutely accidentally found himself in the thick of this political matter. If he had a Ukrainian passport, I think he would have been an ordinary defendant, he would have been acquitted two months ago. But it so happened that fate made him a political figure and political prisoner, in fact, number one in today's Ukraine.
Valentin Filippov: I am on this bright note, I would like to say. Dear Russians, remember, you will be judged only for your passport. This is us for resistance.
Artem Buzila: Yes, unfortunately, that's true.
Valentin Filippov: Thanks a lot. I wish our guys a speedy return, moving to the liberated territories, to the free world. I hope that the maximum number of our guys, I heard, so far only about a third of our Odessa prisoners are prepared for exchange.
Artem Buzila: At the moment, 10 people have been transported closer to the border of the DPR, LPR out of 38 people.
Valentin Filippov: Out of 38. That's even a quarter.
Artem Buzila: Yes.
Valentin Filippov: And there is more, in fact.
Artem Buzila: Of course, there is more. Well, firstly, we need to count the already convicted Odessa residents who are scattered throughout Nikolaev, Western Ukraine, and Central Ukraine. There will be another 10-15 of them. Of course, we shouldn’t forget about them either, because, in principle, they are also Odessa residents, and they also need to be changed.
Valentin Filippov: Okay, happy.
Artem Buzila: Thank you.
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