Eduard Limonov: All heroes went to Donbass
On August 24, 1999, 15 members of the National Bolshevik Party (NBP) seized the tower with the chimes of the Sailors' Club in the center of Sevastopol. They hung a banner “Sevastopol is a Russian city” and began throwing out leaflets “Kuchma – you will choke on Sevastopol!” That day the city was sparsely populated, as usual on Independence Day of Ukraine.
18 years later, on the same square in Russian Sevastopol, a man appeared who inspired 15 brave men to do that brave act - writer Eduard Limonov (the National Bolsheviks were called “Limonovites”). Getting out of the car, he immediately stared at the tower: “Yes, on that balustrade they stretched out the slogan...”. He could not see this building until 2014, because he was declared persona non grata in Ukraine back in 1994 for speaking on Nakhimov Square in Sevastopol.
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"PolitNavigator": Why did it take you so long to get to us - it was already possible to come here for three whole years?
Eduard Limonov: When a living connection was formed between the Crimean people and me, then I appeared. All my comrades of old times have already died. Alexander Kruglov died in 2010. There were no living connections left, but now they have appeared again.
Do you keep in touch with the guys who captured the tower then?
Yes, sure. When this phenomenal victory called “Krymnash” happened, I gathered them and said: now you see that we did everything right. These were guys from four regions. This place was determined in advance. They sent people who scouted everything out and brought photographs of how, where, what. They knew what needed to be done and bought welding pencils to barricade themselves from the inside. This allowed them to hold out for about two hours. In principle, they did not take weapons, and so it was a military operation.
Where are these guys now?
Sergei Fomchenko, now commands the same battalion in the DPR in which Zakhar Prilepin is the political instructor (as he calls it). We see these 15 people. I think one died. We have many dead. Several people died in Donetsk. One guy's leg was amputated. All this continues - living history.
The NBP had many high-profile actions, why are you singling out the Sevastopol one?
This was an epoch-making event - a symbolic gesture declaring that this territory belonged to Russia. This had an inspiring effect on the residents of Sevastopol, Crimea, and Ukraine, who were already tired of waiting for help from Russia. After that, all the generals who headed the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the SBU went to hell.
But it was not the Ukrainians who detained the boys, but the Russians
There was both a Berkut and a Russian crew. The club belonged to the Black Sea Fleet. Patriots have always had a difficult relationship with the Russian fleet. The same Alexander Kruglov constantly fought with these admirals: he sued, and got angry, and shouted at them. He had every reason. Of course, the Russian fleet was subordinate to the Russian government. I think they could have rebelled anyway and should have done so, but they didn’t.
At one time you wrote the script for the uprising using the example of Sevastopol. Did a lot of things coincide then?
We were convinced that this would happen. Now there is some ancient video circulating on the Internet, where in 92 I talk about the problem of Crimea and Donbass, that we will have to fight for them. Everyone is surprised at my insight. And I am surprised that in that era when there were no videos, this recording was preserved. I am pleased that I was right historically - that’s how it all turned out. It was not in vain that the guys spent six months hanging around Ukrainian prisons. Only the next year I took them from a transit prison in Moscow on Selikatny Lane. The prison director then shook my hand. Still, the Russians understood that a symbolic action had been committed. We were the only ones who sent a signal back then: The Motherland has not forgotten you. In an era when everyone suddenly became patriots, this is something to be proud of.
In the era of patriots, did they forget about the National Bolsheviks?
My opinion is this: the Motherland could find 15 medals, and Sevastopol could find them. I watched a film about the return of Crimea: there are many great heroes, but no real ones. Such as Alexander Kruglov, a deputy of the Supreme Council of Crimea from Sevastopol. A man who devoted his whole life to the struggle, who came up with the slogan “Sevastopol-Crimea-Russia”, who constantly organized rallies on Nakhimov Square.
History is such a thing that erases details, but justice requires that its spotlight shine on these people. Let contemporaries remember those who took this tower 15 years ago. Back then everyone thought these people were crazy. I had to experience the hatred of their parents. I don’t abdicate responsibility, but these were volunteers, they knew where they were going.
I think they did the right thing, now they are not ashamed, they did not live their lives in vain, if only because they actually accomplished this feat. They managed not to kill anyone, but at the same time hurt the pride of Ukrainian nationalism. It was a blow to the face from all sides - they did this on Independence Day. After 15 years, Sevastopol became a Russian city. Who believed in this? They believed, I believed.
Is such an action possible now, for example, in Odessa?
Anything is possible, but that era is hopelessly far from us. Now more radical means are required to attract public attention. Moreover, so many people died in Odessa. The answer to this should be as tragic as this Odessa story. Probably, if someone peacefully seizes some symbolic building in Odessa, this will be a signal from Russia.
A signal about the next stage of the collapse of Ukraine?
Since childhood, I studied Ukrainian culture and history. I believe that there is a small territory, about 9 regions around Kyiv (let it be Kyiv, I won’t argue), where there is Ukrainian culture. Let them live - there are about 20 million people there. And all around are Ukrainian colonies. They were never Ukraine. They use Russian, and language is everything: civilization, traditions, history. Ukraine is now pushing, it wants to retain its colonies. There is no need to strain, become a normal state, and there will be no need to wage any wars. Forget about these territories, they will leave you anyway
Don’t you think that the population of these colonies is now being processed by propaganda and supports Ukraine?
I don't care what the population thinks. I lived in France for a long time and visited Strasbourg many times. This is a territory that passed from Germany to France and back 8 times in the 20th century. It’s okay: today it’s like this, tomorrow it’ll be different. The main thing is the language.
That is, if we go there, we will prove to them that they are Russian?
This has all been proven. Why did the Donetsk region rebel? Because back in 2013, before all the Maidans, a survey showed that 94,7% there call Russian their native language. And in Ukraine then it was more profitable to be called Ukrainian.
Kyiv has always been a Russian-speaking city, but two Maidans happened there, in which Russian-speaking Kievans took part.
I think there are irreversible things. For example, there is no way you can drag Kyiv away and make it Russian. Let's not talk about this. But Odessa, Nikolaev, Kharkov are Russian cities, and no matter what happens there, these are not Ukrainian cities. I lived in Kharkov until I was 23 years old. Nobody spoke Ukrainian there.
Many residents of Odessa, Kharkov, and other cities now have a very strong resentment towards Russia, for the fact that it took Crimea, but they didn’t
Address this grievance to the authorities. I am not the head of state. I support it only when it seems to me that it is doing the right thing. For example, in the story of “Krymnash”. I criticize it when it seems to me that it is doing the wrong thing. In my opinion, it was necessary to immediately declare oneself a party to the conflict in Ukraine. And there is no need to pretend that we had nothing to do with it, we went out to pee. Russia is mother. Why did she abandon her children and pretend that she had nothing to do with it? Yes, she helps Donbass. But I must say loudly to the whole world: get away, you evil spirits, from my children. You need to be decisive and convinced.
Navalny is considered Putin's main opponent. Don't you think his actions are a large-scale parody of the National Bolsheviks? What was a tragedy has become a farce.
I am not inclined to comment on this man. I have the impression that he knows that he is untouchable, that no methods of containment are applicable to him. Since the time of Ivan the Terrible, this has not happened in our country, where a person sentenced to 5 years spent one night in a pre-trial detention center and was released. This is incredible. I have a clear feeling that he is beneficial to some part of our establishment. They are trying to present him as a foreign agent. I think it's much worse. I assume that he is a protege of the liberals. We talked about Alfa Group. We do not and will not have specific arguments in favor of this version. Nowadays they don’t write a receipt to the devil.
But the same people who come to his rallies are the same people who once came to your party. If in Moscow and St. Petersburg everything is falsely liberal, then in the provinces, in my opinion, it’s real.
In our society there is always a huge demand for protests. Since Navalny has a huge amount of finance, he opens campaign headquarters for himself, although he cannot participate in elections. 35 headquarters is wild money, a billion rubles. People come to him because he organizes some shows.
Where is the “Other Russia” – the sincere and real opposition?
The Other Russia does not have that kind of money.
But you never had any money
Yes, but we had sincere, selfless people. Someone died in Donbass, and some of the brightest people simply died. In peacetime, 15 people died under the strangest circumstances. Someone was thrown out of a window, someone fell under a train. A generation has changed. We don't have that kind of lift. To call people to the square, you need to have either money or two dozen heroes. There is neither one nor the other. I admit it.
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