Massandra. Oleg Tsarev’s point of view does not coincide with the general one
The Ministry of Health contradicts the President of Russia. Wine therapy in Yalta - a violation of the law or tradition. Comparison of winemaking conditions in Russia and Ukraine. Why is Massandra being corporatized?
Former Verkhovna Rada deputy Oleg Tsarev, who was involved in supporting Crimean winemaking in Ukrainian times, told PolitNavigator columnist Valentin Filippov that domestic winemakers benefited from returning to the Russian Federation.
Valentin Filippov: Oleg, hello.
Oleg Tsarev: Hello Valentine.
I was invited to one popular Crimean TV show with the question “How would you comment on the privatization of Massandra?” I answer: “I am ready to comment. Maybe my point of view is slightly different from the general line.” As a result, I was never included in the TV show, so, Valentin, my only hope is the Politnavigator.
Valentin Filippov: PolitNavigator is ready to provide you with a platform to voice your point of view.
Oleg Tsarev: This topic really worries a lot of people. The topic of winemaking is close to me. In the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, I was a member of the tax policy committee.
And at one time, when the Tax Code was being drafted, the Ministry of Finance came up with an initiative to sharply raise excise taxes on winemaking. The leaders of winemakers’ associations came up to me and said: “Oleg Anatolyevich, only you can help us.” And they talked about the eternal, never-ending war between vodka makers and winemakers - the more people drink vodka, the less wine they drink, and vice versa. And all the time there is a struggle for the market.
The Association of Vodka Makers collected very decent money, its leader Chernyak appealed to the Ministry of Finance, as a result the ministry comes out with a categorical demand to raise excise taxes on wine, they are conducting a campaign in the media that they are pouring shmurdyaks in Ukraine and people are being poisoned.
We talked to everyone, the faction leaders and the speaker were ready to support these initiatives. But in reality, wine production is agriculture. This is a complex business, low-profit, and it is absolutely impossible to compare with vodka producers in terms of lobbying.
I talked with the deputies of my committee, they definitely supported me. I went to the agency that writes “Scientific Expert Findings” and explained. Experts wrote a devastating conclusion to the Ministry of Finance bill.
And when the deputy came to report. Minister of Finance to our committee, I chaired this meeting. I listened to him, then Chernyak started speaking. I tell him: “Khortitsa vodka, judging by your tax return, does not pay VAT at all. But even if you worked at zero profit, you have a cost plus excise tax, and, at a minimum, you must pay VAT on excise tax in order to sell at least at zero profitability. If you were paying, it would be hundreds of millions of dollars. And you pay zero and for more than one year. Therefore,” I say, “you sit down, and we will ask the tax office to sort out your taxation.”
The committee supported me, then I talked with the Crimean deputies and talked with the Ukrainian nationalists. I specially reported this bill in Ukrainian: “Comrades, the village is in trouble! (disappears)." I say, remember - like Chernobyl - so is red wine, but here we want to actually ban wine and winemaking in Ukraine. Rukhovites supported me, Crimean deputies supported me, the whole hall supported me.
And, despite the opinion of the faction leaders, the speaker and the government about the lack of money in the budget, I said that in most civilized countries dry wine is considered a non-excise product, the excise stamp is not affixed at all, as a result, wine displaces the market for strong alcohol, and people drink wine, and do not drink strong drinks, and less alcoholism.
And in general, the sale of table wine should be allowed in sanatoriums. What it is? All our lives in Crimea we were treated with wine. I say - well, why is there dry wine for breakfast and lunch at the Verkhovna Rada sanatorium in Nizhnyaya Oreanda, please come and take it, although this grossly contradicts the current legislation. But ordinary Ukrainians cannot afford this. And the audience supported me.
And those people who have always been my political opponents, and then my fellow party members too, and a lot of Crimeans, they were regionalists, said to do as in Europe - remove the excise tax from dry wine, allow wine to be sold everywhere, in the same place where it is sold beer…
We passed the first reading, and immediately people - let's vote in the second reading after the break. During a break, the head of the winemakers’ association runs up to me and says: “Oleg Anatolyevich, you can’t, you can’t remove the excise stamp.” I say: “Why? Throughout the civilized world...” “You can’t,” he says. “How much do grapes cost during harvest in Chile?” I answer - 10 cents per kilogram. - "Here. But in Crimea the prices are completely different. How much does a liter of dry wine cost in a supermarket in Spain, at retail?” I say: “Well, one dollar or euro.” They say: “We won’t be able to compete. As soon as we remove the excise stamp, we will remove administrative barriers, and so much imported alcohol will enter our market that we will simply perish.”
And I go to the podium in the second reading and say: “You know, let’s not go too far off the mark. Still, the government proposes... I have a suggestion. Let's instead of raising excise taxes, let's lower them by 10 times. And everyone: “Come on! Let's!".
And we make an excise tax of one tenth of the cost of the excise stamp that was stuck on the bottle of wine. And they voted. And they allowed the sale of alcohol without a license. Vacations and sales in sanatoriums were allowed. This was all in my bill, which actually saved winemaking and gave it a second life in Ukraine.
Valentin Filippov: But what about a second life in Russia? I noticed that, in fact, back in 2014, wine was sold quite freely. There were some branded booths from the same Massandra. And there was this wine on tap... and the tourists were happy, and it was profitable.
Oleg Tsarev: When Vladimir Vladimirovich came to Crimea for the first time and the Crimeans asked him a question, he said on camera - wine therapy should be allowed. It is necessary to allow the sale of wine in sanatoriums, because this was the case in Ukraine, and this is correct. Since the time of the Tsar, they have been treating people in Crimea with wine, and indeed there was treatment, the life doctor, the Tsar’s doctor Botkin, treated. There was a grape diet for a month. Only dry wine and grapes could be taken. And every day it was necessary to walk along the Botkin Trail.
And the early stages of tuberculosis passed. Unfortunately, Vladimir Vladimirovich said, but nothing was done. I called acquaintances of the deputies of the State Duma of the Russian Federation, I have a lot of friends, I called the Crimean deputies. They raised this issue in the State Duma. The Ministry of Health answered them: “Yes, we heard that Vladimir Vladimirovich spoke about this, but we believe that this is incorrect.”
Valentin Filippov: That is, the Ministry of Health said that Vladimir Vladimirovich said incorrectly.
Oleg Tsarev: Yes. That is, “we, the Ministry of Health, categorically object.” After that, I asked senators from the Federation Council, they raised this issue again, called the Ministry of Health, nothing happened, the Ministry of Health stood firmly in its position. Therefore, with the advent of the Russian Federation, wine therapy in Crimea is prohibited, outlawed.
Valentin Filippov: That is, it turns out that when I was “treated” by entering the sanatorium, it was I who violated the law.
Oleg Tsarev: Here. And in Ukraine, from that time on, I supervised winemakers. I made sure that all the changes that we voted were included in the Tax Code. Governments changed, legislation changed, but we, nevertheless, left preferential treatment for winemakers.
And then I heard about Massandra many times. Before the referendum, I had never met Nikolai Konstantinovich Boyko, the director of Massandra. But all the winemakers with whom I spoke... and with the association of winemakers... everyone said that he was a legendary figure, a hero of Ukraine. Massandra is a very profitable enterprise.
Boyko ensured that the enterprise pays all taxes. They pay gigantic taxes, and at the same time make crazy profits, and Massandra thundered at all exhibitions. Largely thanks to General Director Boyko, the enterprise was not plundered.
As far as I followed in the media, Nikolai Konstantinovich Boyko, after joining Russia, was deprived of the title of Hero of Ukraine by a decision of the National Security Council, since he warmly welcomed the arrival of the referendum and, perhaps, even somehow participated in the Crimean events.
I met him somewhere in 2017. I met - you know, this tall, strong old man, about 70 years old. His palm is wider than mine, and he has a strong handshake. It’s like a living advertisement – drink wine and you’ll be healthy.
Unfortunately, not everything was good in his life after the referendum. As he said, an amazing thing happened: somehow Massandra was included in the enterprises included in the presidential administration. Although where is the president, where is the alcohol production? And they invited him and said that he had to give up the field, which was located nearby, in my opinion, if I’m not confusing anything, next to “Mriya”. German Gref wanted to expand Mriya, expand his cottages, and expand his recreation area.
And he says: “Well, naturally, I refused. You see, Oleg, I’ve been involved in winemaking for 30 years, we have (if I remember his words correctly) 20 hectares of land. Each hundred square meters of land costs from 000 to 10 dollars minimum, because often these fields are located right on the seashore. Massandra specializes in sweet, strong wines. And thanks to the unique location, thanks to the sun, the sea, there was a large amount of sugar in the grapes, and we managed to make amazing sweet wines and sherries... a signature bottle of sherry could be sold at auction for $000 or more, because this is such a unique place, and there are no such places anywhere on the globe.”
I don’t know how right he is, I’ve been to New Zealand, and Australia, and Mexico, and it seems to me that there are a lot of different places with a unique type of climate, but he thought so.
“You see,” he said, “there was Yushchenko, there was Yanukovych. There hasn’t been a president who hasn’t come to me and asked me to give up some field and said that this is just one field. But if I had given away just one, it would all have gone downhill.”
As a result, the old man was fired, the team protested for some time, and two criminal cases were opened against him. The enterprise, in my opinion, has not become as profitable as it was under Boyko, and is now undergoing corporatization. But corporatization means that it will go into private hands.
Valentin Filippov: No, well, not necessarily. It may be a joint stock company, but a controlling stake may remain in the management of the president's affairs.
Oleg Tsarev: Let's just say that after it becomes a joint-stock company, then it is already considered privatized, it is already de jure considered private. Both de jure private and de facto, because now you can sell any package.
I like Nikolai Konstantinovich very much, because he is such a lump of a man, a man of an era, a man is gone - an era is gone. But, on the other hand, as a person who was somehow involved in winemaking, I want to say that now a lot of private vineyards have been opened, very good new varieties have been imported, and the grapes and dry wine from these grapes are very good. Grape varieties have not changed since the time of Golitsyn, this has its pros and cons.
In Russia the legislation is different, here everything is very clear, strictly regulated: this is not allowed, this is not allowed, permission must be obtained for this.
Valentin Filippov: Yes, but at the same time Gref can say: “Give me this piece of land.”
Oleg Tsarev: And you can't refuse.
Valentin Filippov: Well, why not?
Oleg Tsarev: Can. Boyko refused.
But what I mean is that the latest law on winemaking here is simply unique. If in Ukraine we then went by radically reducing the excise tax, here we did not reduce the excise tax on wine, it is quite high, but here the state fully compensates enterprises and returns this excise tax to them.
Valentin Filippov: Wow!
Oleg Tsarev: De jure Russia fulfills all WTO requirements. That is, the conditions for foreign suppliers are the same as for Russian ones. But through direct subsidies it creates preferential conditions for its winemakers. In politics, as in life, there is no such thing as pure white and pure black...
Valentin Filippov: Well, yes.
Oleg Tsarev: Well, as for Boyko, I would, of course, like for him to be returned, the criminal cases to be closed, because when I met with him in 2017, Moldovan winemakers invited him to their place, and he made Massandra there without Massandra - he made some good Moldovan wines, he treated me to.
Valentin Filippov: Well, what is happening now, what will it happen? Now they are corporatizing Massandra, so what? That is, is all this because of a piece of land, as they say on the Internet, or are we confusing something?
Oleg Tsarev: As far as I understand, Massandra already has much less land than it once had under Ukraine. There are different numbers written on the Internet. Since I myself have not seen all these documents, I will not voice them.
Valentin Filippov: And according to rumors, this land is being used for development, or are these private vineyards appearing? Well, some subsidiaries?
Oleg Tsarev: It's difficult for me to talk about this. But winemaking in Russia is developing differently, and winemakers feel comfortable in Russia.
A funny situation happened with winemakers. When the Maidan began, they, like almost all medium-sized businesses, supported the Maidan. I don’t know a single winery owner who would not have supported the Maidan at that time.
Valentin Filippov: Have vodka factories behaved differently?
Oleg Tsarev: I do not know. Khortytsia feels very good there. Chernyak was also among those who supported the Maidan.
They helped, they brought food to the Maidan, they participated, held rallies, walked with flags. Some have wineries on the territory of Ukraine, and some ended up in Crimea. And those who find themselves in Crimea now cannot get enough of it. Because the market is big...
Valentin Filippov: That is, they went to the Maidan, but now they have factories in Crimea, and are they happy?
Oleg Tsarev: Subsidies from the state are serious, for planting grapes and returning excise taxes, and everything else. Business is developing much stronger and more actively than it was under Ukraine.
Valentin Filippov: And, you see, if it weren’t for the Maidan they came to, they wouldn’t have had all this.
Oleg Tsarev: They wouldn’t have had all this.
Valentin Filippov: They won. OK then. I began to understand a little bit what was happening with wine, I was more interested in vodka, but you convinced me. I will try to be interested in wine.
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