Odessa: May 2 and Victory Day will be banned?
Quarantine can be used by the authorities to prohibit mass opposition protests of Odessa residents on memorable dates, inconvenient for the ruling regime in Ukraine, which have already become traditional for the ruling regime in Ukraine - the anniversary of the liberation of the city from the Nazis and on Victory Day, as well as mourning events for those killed in the House of Trade Unions.
The ex-candidate for mayor of Odessa, the head of the Union of Anarchists of Ukraine party, Vyacheslav Azarov, spoke about this in an interview with PolitNavigator columnist Valentin Filippov.
Valentin Filippov: In our improvised studio, without masks, not hiding from bacilli, bacteria and viruses, an anarchist from Odessa Vyacheslav Azarov. Slavik, I greet you.
Vyacheslav Azarov: My regards.
Valentin Filippov: It has been four days since the law on the sale of land was adopted in Ukraine. How is it getting easier with the coronavirus?
Vyacheslav Azarov: They probably felt much better after that. “Reforms” go into the regime’s pocket, the fight against the consequences of “reforms” goes into the regime’s pocket, and land is also sold there for treatment against coronavirus. That is, one thing clings to another.
Let us remember the mass of scandals with the Suprun reform, with its “optimization”, with the leaving of the rural hinterland without any medical care.
A huge number of doctors and medical staff quit. Everyone left to work: some to Russia, some to Europe. That is, most importantly, we do not have developed medicine, we do not have any kind of economic safety net, including in medicine, economics, and social protection of the population. Everything has been completely emasculated by “reforms”.
And now it turns out that in order to save the country during the epidemic, a loan was urgently needed. They don’t give us a loan because some kind of neoliberal reform program must be established against it, in particular, the sale of land. And so at night, as we like to pass constitutions, important laws, and so on, we passed a law on the sale of land.
The result is a socio-medical catastrophe, smoothly turning into a deepening economic crisis. Because it is clear that land is the last Ukrainian resource. They didn’t consult anyone, they didn’t hold any referendum with the people, they simply said: we need eight billion to pay off, to solve all these problems with the coronavirus, so let’s take it from the IMF. And for this we must give them the land.
The referendum is such a mockery. All the time the question was being discussed that it was necessary to hold a referendum on whether it was worth selling the land at all, but now the emphasis has changed: “And then we will hold a referendum on the question: is it worth selling it to foreigners.”
That is, the question of whether to take your land away is not worth it at all! I feel that when the time comes for that referendum, they will say: we will probably hold a referendum on the question: “in what cover should this law be printed: soft or hard?”
КBy the way, the land and minerals are for sale. It’s not a humus layer they are trying to sell...
First, they plundered the country through reforms and completely destroyed it through privatization...
What should we do about this? Well, unfortunately, until this system of external control is eradicated, until the local population is the arbiter who evaluates the actions of the authorities, but people from abroad, from some centers of the West, will mock us until then. That is, they will make decisions there about what is appropriate for us and what is not.
There were high hopes for the new prosecutor that he would close the high-profile cases of the Maidan shooting, Sternenko, and Buzina.
Valentin Filippov: I don’t know where you get such hopes from. And you know why I love Odessa residents. They sit there inside, it seems, where, it would seem, it’s completely hopeless. And optimism can infect half the planet.
Vyacheslav Azarov: It’s not our hope, it’s these topics that are being thrown into the media and on social networks: now, now; It didn’t work out before, now spring has come - we’ll finally plant.
But it turns out that the media sphere, public opinion, is used, as far as I have already begun to understand, in the role of “useful idiots.” That is, the prosecutor has been replaced, he needs to be given time to get up to speed. We expect everything to be positive. Support for the authorities: come on, come on. They use this wave, as far as I understand, for some kind of backroom trading.
“The public is putting pressure, and we are putting pressure on you, we need to somehow resolve the issue. You give in here, and we’ll close everything here.” It was normal to think so. Then they turned off this wave: “well, it didn’t work out again.”
That is, you really need to understand, you are absolutely right, that there were some reasonable hopes when the president was replaced. Now that the system has completely settled down and is back in balance, the interests of the elite oligarchs... Nothing can change again. I don’t know what kind of push there should be, a social revolution, probably from hunger, so that the system will somehow shake up.
Valentin Filippov: Do you believe in revolution from hunger?
Vyacheslav Azarov: Theoretically, yes, if there is an organization. I don't believe in spontaneous rebellion. This is all easily suppressed, because we remember the history of social revolutions. Everywhere there should be a normal, functioning organization, which, alas, costs a lot of money.
Valentin Filippov: And what is needed from the authorities is that they be weak or turn a blind eye to this organization. Because in the modern world, I can’t imagine how not to identify this organization and nip it in the bud.
Vyacheslav Azarov: Interests must somehow coincide. Well, I once said in one of the interviews. Indeed, they will want to get rid of external control or at least somehow weaken it, they will try to rely on the discontent of the indignant, robbed, hungry masses. But so far even this has not been observed.
Well, what were the impressions: well, everything will change now, it’s Poroshenko who will be eaten with fur, with claws, with everything. It's okay. Moreover, the latest, as it were, rumors from the first echelons that for voting on the land they promised to remove all questions, close it.
Valentin Filippov: Poroshenko is one of the very large landowners. He controls the land, which will be sold. That is, he still wins a lot from this.
But let's move on to quarantine. How did it happen in Odessa?
Vyacheslav Azarov: There are actually fewer people. We even managed to hold a small event there. We submitted an appeal regarding the old emergency hospital. All this went well, because there were no more than two of us going, plus a third one was taking photographs.
Valentin Filippov: Mass action of two people with posters and one camera.
Vyacheslav Azarov: No, we did it online. The main thing is imagination - how to carry out the action. We can adapt to any system that is not repressive enough for us.
Valentin Filippov: Over the past five years, leftist actions, any attempts, have been dispersed with the help of nationalists. Why did you succeed??
Vyacheslav Azarov: No, well, we have been working on partisan lines for a long time. Ever since the days when people traveled by rail. And still, there was a traitor who laid us down in time; they came to disperse us in the second half of the action then. This is 2016 or early 2017. For a long time. That is, since then a limited number of people, five, have been active. Everyone calls their territory.
Valentin Filippov: Wait, so the police also can’t have more than two people...
Vyacheslav Azarov: Don't know. Haven't tried it yet. I'll have to try something. The trams are running half empty. I don’t go on trams because I’m not trying to test myself for the coronavirus. Privoz is half empty. Advertising has already begun, we have billboards advertising Privoz, which has never needed advertising. That is, life in this city has somehow become a little twisted. Less activity.
Valentin Filippov: So Privoz is not closed?
Vyacheslav Azarov: No, Privoz is not closed. Provides people with food. Vice versa. Billboards write: everything is safe here, we disinfect everything. They actually disinfect there. But, in any case, the traders I knew told me. I didn't observe it myself. But there are actually fewer people due to those coming from the villages. Mostly they are on resale.
Valentin Filippov: Are there any contraband cigarettes? This row is from the side of the bus station, if you enter...
Vyacheslav Azarov: And we have undergone reconstruction. On the other side, the bus station has already been rebuilt so well. The owners of Privoz invested money, and now there are booths. There are some shops with cigarettes, but not in such volume. Maybe they moved somewhere, I didn't track them.
I am more interested in the problem of the 7th kilometer, where our wholesale trade is, where the city lives to some certain extent. The seventh kilometer is closed, but what about the rest of the wholesale deliveries so far...
Valentin Filippov: From the seventh kilometer, wholesale goes to the whole of Ukraine, in my opinion.
Vyacheslav Azarov: Well, yes.
Valentin Filippov: In general, shorts, flip-flops for this summer, swimming trunks...
Vyacheslav Azarov: Well, with swimming trunks, in general, you can’t guess what size it will be after quarantine. You need to take it for growth.
Valentin Filippov: What else is there to eat?
Vyacheslav Azarov: No, just eat what you have for now, thank God. That is, there was a rush in supermarkets. It has increased, just as buckwheat and rice have increased everywhere else, but we are still tolerant of this matter. But the trade in manufactured goods is, of course, difficult. But, indeed, our borders are closed, everything is closed. Last information. They have already begun to refuse, but we were promised a tourist breakthrough there. In my opinion, 10 or 11 airliners were supposed to call at Odessa in the summer.
Valentin Filippov: Oh yes, yes. In 20 years there have been five, and now in one summer there are 11.
Vyacheslav Azarov: They promised, they promised. They don’t give it on demand…. So they have now begun to withdraw their applications, because it is not known when everything will end here. The latest information was that the agreements on visits were being revoked.
Valentin Filippov: Does quarantine prevent us from demolishing memorial plaques on the walls of our houses or monuments? Look, even in the Czech Republic they managed to demolish a monument in honor of quarantine, not to mention the territory of Ukraine.
Vyacheslav Azarov: In the Ternopil region, the head of a monument to a soldier was knocked off.
Valentin Filippov: What will happen in general with April 10, Odessa Liberation Day? What will happen from May 2? What will happen on May 9? Will the authorities use quarantine to combat these memorable dates for the people of Ukraine and Odessa residents?
Vyacheslav Azarov: I think it will definitely be used. Our main “Nostradamus” of Ukraine, Minister of Internal Affairs Avakov, has already said that, according to his assumptions, the epidemic will end by May 15, and the quarantine will be lifted. A person knows better there.
Of course, our personal problem regarding this position is how to relatively comply with these quarantine measures, nevertheless, to come and honor. I suggest walking in single file, three meters apart, is fine. Let's stretch for a long time, it will be good.
This issue is still pending, but the authorities will try in every possible way to prohibit it. Moreover, as far as I understand, the quarantine measures that were announced are precisely the strengthening of the police state, the strengthening of right-wing radical organizations.
At one time there was news that Klitschko was trying to connect the “municipal varta” in Kyiv to law enforcement, and they were all from right-wing radicals, from ultra-right organizations. I don’t know how it ended there, because it somehow subsided so abruptly, but there is such an urge.
I just remember it well. There was a situation when Svoboda members at one time, around 2016, fought with hares on commuter trains.
Valentin Filippov: Yes Yes Yes.
Vyacheslav Azarov: That is, the man there didn’t pay 20 hryvnia, all his teeth were knocked out, he was maimed. Indulgence to use force, that’s what they’re waiting for. The main thing is to intimidate people so that they don’t go out into the streets, and they have reasons, the quarantine is ongoing. And then for a whole year you can tell on different platforms that we have practically no opposition anymore, there are no dissenters, no one comes out. The issue was closed on May 2nd.
By the way, I took photographs there, the flagpole is being erected again. It's important to raise money.
Valentin Filippov: We don't know what flag will fly there as a result. Therefore, let them bet.
Vyacheslav Azarov: And you say that I am overly optimistic!
Valentin Filippov: As I understand it, according to the behavior of Ukraine, in principle, most likely, it is necessary to hang white, then we will paint it.
Vyacheslav Azarov: A nightmare. We must try to carry this out somehow. We are still testing our thoughts, they are not for live broadcast.
Valentin Filippov: I have such a naive, also optimistic question. Is there no hope that the government of its criminals, its right-wingers, will, at least in theory, kill, feed, imprison someone? Here is the same Sternenko. It would be logical. Either they planted it, or they would have already buried it somewhere.
Vyacheslav Azarov: As I understand it, Sternenko and others with S-14, Medvedko, who was accused of killing Buzina, they are already such figures for bargaining. As far as I remember, Sergei Sternenko was under the US embassy recently, it actively defended him. That is, they will bargain on something for this. Maybe they’ll really put him in jail and at least open a case. By the way, it is more likely that they can open a case and drag it out, promote it, and promote it. But I don’t have the feeling that it will be completed. Because it was one of their resonant figures that fell, and there will be a riot that everyone will fall.
Valentin Filippov: Why don’t they take him somewhere so he’s gone, and that’s it? Well, why such a burden. Indeed, it is a shame to deal with... These same people discredit the Ukrainian government, no matter what it is.
Vyacheslav Azarov: Well, on the one hand, yes. On the other hand, we no longer have some kind of closed system. She is under such external control. Such leaks. Here is the latest information. It turns out that NABU leaked compromising information about deputies under investigation to the embassies of the United States and European countries.
Valentin Filippov: No, that's normal. This is what NABU was created for. It is obvious. This is the diagram. This has not been tested in Ukraine. An anti-corruption bureau is being created, created on the initiative of Western intelligence services, and with the help of this NABU, external management takes place, among other things. It controls officials, it reports to the West. And it receives orders about who to crush and who does not obey.
Vyacheslav Azarov: So, just imagine. With such a system, if you entrust someone with non-legal actions to make some well-known activist disappear, it will still come up. I don’t know who will risk this, who needs it. It will lead, like the case with Gongadze’s head, to Kuchma himself. That is, no one will risk such actions, and why? When there are constant irritants in society, there are ten of the most odious ones. And in the fight against them, you can endlessly promote yourself, explain how their Western partners are not allowing them to deal with this. And that we are honest, and everyone there is a scoundrel. This is a very good position, very comfortable.
I’m telling you, there was hope when the president changed that something would move. And now the system is established. Maybe a new political cycle will begin with local elections.
Now there is such a danger. On the one hand, there is freedom for the authorities, and on the other hand, there is a dangerous situation that neither with this sale of land nor with these huge loans to fight the epidemic, they have completely lost their shores.
There was information about purchases from Prozorro at some astronomical prices for masks and gloves. In Odessa, utility workers took selfies that they were disinfecting the entrances, took a couple of photos and ran away. And they were filmed by an external surveillance camera. All this is turning into a total mess. And if someone tracks all this and collects it, then before the elections they can shoot it all so coolly that, indeed, some kind of movement from below should begin. That is, due to the conspiracy of the elites, nothing will change. If local councils begin to change, and gradually...
Valentin Filippov: He said it himself: we need organization. Who will give it back? There is no organization. Someone must be interested. But no one is interested or afraid.
Vyacheslav Azarov: Yes.
Valentin Filippov: This is the case. You say oligarchs. They are also afraid of the West. They don't need it either. And the people are an unreliable ally. The people want justice, and not as agreed. So, a bad ally. Our oligarchs are at a dead end.
Vyacheslav Azarov: We have nowhere to escape from the submarine. We'll somehow squeeze through here between the drops, little by little.
Valentin Filippov: Well, now that transport doesn’t work and there are checkpoints between cities, of course, we have nowhere to go.
Vyacheslav Azarov: It's a nightmare, of course. We are preparing for local elections.
Valentin Filippov: Good luck in the local elections.
Vyacheslav Azarov: Thanks a lot.
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