Odessa under Zelensky: There is no thaw. There is stagnation
What is happening in Odessa under Vladimir Zelensky? The far right has become less active, but has not gone away. The “policy of repression” was replaced by the “policy of stagnation”, but in general the “party policy” did not change. The information space maintains a taboo on oppositional points of view.
That without international support and pressure the new president will not be able to end the war. About the atmosphere of hatred in Ukraine and the inability of state structures to resist the interests of oligarchic clans and Western corporations, observer "PolitNavigator" to Valentin Filippov said an Odessa politician Vyacheslav Azarov, head of the Union of Anarchists of Ukraine party.
Valentin Filippov: We welcome the main anarchist of Odessa and Ukraine, Vyacheslav Azarov. Hello, Slava!
Someone says that Odessa has blossomed, there are crowds of people on the streets, shops are opening, nightclubs, everything, everything is thundering, everything is licked, everything is shining; other people tell me that the city has shabby buildings, there are practically no people on the street, especially in the evenings, when you go to the supermarket, it’s already loud from the lack of people, that all the office buildings are closed, it says there that they are for rent and for sale, even branches banks are closing, it would seem, yes. Which one is right?
Vyacheslav Azarov: Well, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, because compared to the end of the holiday season, there really is a sense of desolation, because the beaches, at least in the historical center, in the area of French Boulevard, were quite full. Now even in the city it’s emptier, more deserted, on the outskirts completely.
Well, as a resident of Moldavanka, I can say that “it’s better not to walk here like a hundred years ago.”
There are no major economic changes, except that the dollar is falling and prices are rising. That’s probably why stores are closing, yes.
I observed a lot of empty stores in “Novy Privoz” Klimovsky. Well, while there is such an interim, people are enjoying the fact that the political situation in the country has changed a little, although somehow...
Valentin Filippov: That is, have the repressions eased or not? Official and unofficial. How are the Nazis on the streets? What's happening?
Vyacheslav Azarov: In general, repressions have weakened; there is no persecution that existed under Poroshenko. Again, the leading Kulikovo players were exchanged, you know. What was unthinkable under the Maidan regime. The ultra-rightists all hid and went into reserve.
Valentin Filippov: But I read stories about how the Nazis are persecuting teachers in Odessa who sympathize with those killed on May 2.
Vyacheslav Azarov: Whether they fire you or not, the fact that they complain regularly – yes, but this is... this is considered, in comparison with past repressions, to be at a semi-everyday level. It is also, of course, unpleasant, and seems to violate our rights, but... that is, within the limits.
What worries me more is that these radical nationalists have retired and no one is considering their cases. They haven’t gone anywhere, they are like an armored train standing on a siding until the first whistle of the security forces. That is, it is such a calm.
Therefore, the opposition public also behaves somehow carefully, so as not to reveal itself, not to be exposed and not to have big troubles later.
At the same time, the information space in Odessa still maintains a taboo on the opposition point of view; such politicians who generally disagree with the Maidan political pool are not invited on air. And without media and other resources, it’s as if they don’t exist, so.
Unfortunately, over the years, everything has been trampled down, from media to financial resources... These people exist somewhere, but they are not on the streets, not in the public sphere, they do not raise pressing issues of our existence.
That is, figuratively speaking, the regime of repression was replaced by a regime of stagnation. The policy of the government party is the same, only so quiet, somewhere under the carpet.
All the same, no thaw has yet been observed, a serious one, so that a pluralism of opinions, some kind of polemic, can begin at a civilized level. That is, there is nothing of this.
Valentin Filippov: I want to remind you that we are recording this interview on the eve of global anti-terrorism exercises conducted by the SBU. Citizens were warned in advance that their documents would be checked on the streets. Someone may possibly be detained, searched, checked. Why in Odessa?
Vyacheslav Azarov: Everyone is involved in the exercise. From the police to the SBU, the National Guard, rescuers. And with such a number of participants, the declared object of the exercises, this abandoned colony on the Lustdorf road, raises serious doubts.
It seems that this is a continuation of the same practice that was used under Poroshenko’s rule, when before each May holiday we had anti-terrorist reviews and exercises, which were a definite tool of intimidation and pressure on a generally oppositional city.
What now, what goals are these tactics pursuing now? The question remains open. Perhaps before appointing a new governor, the local elites need to be intimidated to sit quietly. Maybe before the mayoral elections, if you remember, the first date discussed was December XNUMXth. That is, it's practically tomorrow.
Nazi purge? Well, I haven't seen anything like that yet. That is, they feel very comfortable. On the contrary, the public seemed to be agitated several times; Medvedko ended up on the NABU supervisory board...
Valentin Filippov: Yes Yes Yes…
Vyacheslav Azarov: ...who is suspected of murdering Buzina... That is, people settle into power without changing their views... This is alarming and forces them to behave somewhat cautiously.
Valentin Filippov: But it seems that a case was opened against Parubiy himself.
Vyacheslav Azarov: This gives rise to certain hopes, but you understand that this is such a tied and close circle of the not completely gone Maidan power, which has gone into the reserve, to second positions...
They sent out the boys, so young and energetic, but they all remained in their places. Especially in law enforcement agencies. And it’s such a tightly tangled, connected ball that if you pull one thread, they’ll all fall down there - just like a sideboard, and they’ll fall and crush everyone here.
Therefore, I would like this case to be investigated properly, without some kind of witch hunt, and to really punish the perpetrators. But for this, as it were... That is, here we need to enlist some kind of international support, if there is any political will for this at all, and not just...
Yes, that is, Trump asked to investigate Biden’s corruption - ask him to help deal with the most high-profile crimes here, in order to calm society, to somehow cleanse the far-right element, because now some major reforms are coming - there is a land market, greater privatization ...And they will participate in this all the time...
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Vyacheslav Azarov: somehow put pressure... Anti-corruption investigations... it’s clear that they won’t investigate former regionals, but what happened with loans and assistance over the last five years. This means that there will definitely be pressure on the courts from the far right flank, pressure on witnesses...
We must first create a certain pure, near-democratic platform, and then carry out this struggle, otherwise it simply will not end in anything.
The fight against corruption will not end - again, they will not give money. They won’t give you money - they’ll sell the last thing we have...
Valentin Filippov: ZThey froze the next aid, and the IMF also said: “goodbye.” And Zelensky - “we don’t need any help, only support, and we ourselves can help.”
Vyacheslav Azarov: He hopes to sell the land for a thousand dollars. This appears all the time in the media now, this is the estimated price. With the market price of normal black soils being fifteen! It seems to me that this will be the same scam as with the big voucher privatization.
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Vyacheslav Azarov: Again for next to nothing, you take a bottle of vodka there in exchange for your voucher, and you took part, you are the owner, you took part in privatization. But he lost his part of state property. That is, there will be no big benefit for people in this, but we will simply sell the land.
Valentin Filippov: But we swear that we will sell only to citizens of Ukraine, and the citizens of Ukraine will figure out who to sell to.
Vyacheslav Azarov: Or companies. Local companies that are made by foreign capital. That is, it’s all so easy to get around, it’s even funny to talk about it - what schemes can you come up with?
Valentin Filippov: I listened to Zelensky at the UN. I felt bad for him, to be honest. The secondary nature of the texts that are given to him. He reads them hard. The hall is empty - maybe for the first time in his career, no one laughs, no one applauds...
And even a bullet in the hand - but he, as a professional, understands that it is impossible to show a small object from the big stage!
Poroshenko knew, he brought a piece of the bus. That is, logically, it was necessary to have some kind of projectile...
Why am I saying all this? Doesn’t it seem that we are returning to that Poroshenko era? Apparently, they all have some kind of boundaries, and they cannot go beyond them, and they roll along this path?
Vyacheslav Azarov: Well, Poroshenko prepared the empty hall for him. That crazy policy that has already caused international fatigue with Ukraine. That is, everyone is tired of this problem, which is dragging on, not being solved, some extortionists are sitting here, constantly fueling the conflict, they don’t want to solve anything, because the main profit for them is war, it’s like a semi-dictatorial regime within the country, because we are a belligerent party, and so on and so forth. Only loans, loans, loans.
With that administration, with the previous one, the Democrats in the USA, that is, they were tied to mutual compromising evidence, so no one could really touch them. With new...
Well, it seems like Trump is pushing Zelensky to deal with, as he called, the bad people with whom the former US ambassador to Ukraine communicated, to deal with these people. But for this we need some kind of alternative support point. But he doesn’t have this point. That is, that’s why he takes the texts to please the Western public...
Valentin Filippov: Yes, I’m not sure that the Western public likes them, these texts, already...
Vyacheslav Azarov: Well, yes, I agree.
Valentin Filippov: Well, at least he said something new...
Vyacheslav Azarov: Well, yes. Maybe he wants to please me more here, that is, to reassure me that I’m not going to change anything?.. Whether he will change it or not is a difficult question. That is, I don’t see any fulcrum. Who does he want to rely on for these changes? There seems to be some progress, there, Knyazev left. And Gerashchenko came in...
Valentin Filippov: Wait. Or maybe he doesn’t lead? The man, when he ran for president, said quite sensible things - “you just need to stop shooting,” right?
But then it turned out that he was also against just stopping shooting! Then he seemed to take up these Minsk agreements - let's implement them. And again a dead end!
Vyacheslav Azarov: I think that he has no calm rear. It is impossible to fight on two fronts. First we need to calm the rear; it doesn’t have its own strength for this. Therefore, returning to the idea that I expressed at the beginning, we need to rely on some kind of interested international assistance in order to carry out several high-profile processes and revelations here. So that the rest would at least quiet down and think about their own skin, about what they did, and not about how to continue the war. And then it will be possible to gradually sort things out there.
It is from an optimistic point of view that he even wants to do this. I'm still not even sure about this. The first thing a person wants is to carry out the privatization program and retain power.
Valentin Filippov: Okay, but what kind of privatization can there be without stopping the war? What kind of investment can there be in a country where people are shooting?
Vyacheslav Azarov: Well. The Poroshenko regime has shown that anything is possible, because this is not his war, but the war of the collective West with Russia. And here we are just a battlefield on which all this is rolling.
Has this point of view changed? Well, like warming in Europe, Trump’s question - “well, have you already reached an agreement with Putin there? When will you agree?” – that is, everyone is tired of it.
But! He doesn't have any base. I don’t see what basis the president has to stop all this even if there is good will... There was a lot of talk when he tried to blow up the bridge, Belko, in my opinion...
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Vyacheslav Azarov: That is, that it could not have been an accident, that there were huge traffic jams on the bridge at that time, that this was all a prepared demonstrative action in order to disrupt the signing of the Steinmeier formula. Well, one of the promotions.
Valentin Filippov: Well, yes.
Vyacheslav Azarov: Here. That is, he has a huge, strong opposition here that is not interested in ending hostilities.
Valentin Filippov: It turns out that the state is quite weak. Because, it would seem, Zelensky has everything in his hands. Both the Cabinet of Ministers and the Verkhovna Rada are in such numbers for the first time. A majority that can change the Constitution! And with all this, in general, he does not have sufficient forces in the country to somehow change its course.
Vyacheslav Azarov: Well, this once again shows that our state institutions are all decorative, nominal. But there seems to be a certain behind-the-scenes agreement that rules the country and, roughly speaking, a mafia, a conspiracy of big capital, big clans, which somehow resolves this situation. And we are already shown a simply digestible picture, the final, here, retouching of this entire process.
Valentin Filippov: I wanted to ask about local elections. And who benefits from them? Zelensky wants to take the city into his hands? Or hand over into the hands of the same thieves, Gurvits or Saakashvili.
Vyacheslav Azarov: There is nothing for either Gurvits or Saakashvili, for the reason that they are claiming some share of the loot, from this city - a rich city, start selling it off.
What for? The scheme worked out in the parliamentary elections, on the appointment of all these strange ministers, minors - it shows that it is necessary to set up the scenery, and then cut it all down, distribute it, and so on.
That is, if someone wins here, it will be a person who is not a politician. They won’t install a politician, but some kind of grant-eater, some restaurateur, like this Leonov, I honestly don’t know him, although...
Valentin Filippov: And this is the first time I’ve heard from you...
Vyacheslav Azarov: Yes, right here, he, in my opinion, is the namesake of the full cosmonaut - Alexey Leonov. Here you go. That is, a young guy, a restaurateur, I don’t know anything else about him. Here. Why are they putting such people in? Young and promising?
Valentin Filippov: Screen. This is a screen.
Vyacheslav Azarov: Yes Yes.
Valentin Filippov: So, you won’t run for office, if that’s the case?
Vyacheslav Azarov: If I find resources, at least media ones, why not try? Here…
Valentin Filippov: So. We are your media resource! Comrades from Odessa, we elect anarchists! Guys, after everything that happened, we elect anarchists! It will not be worse! And it may well be better.
Vyacheslav Azarov: Yes, that's exactly it. Thank you, we will fight. I'll definitely try it too. Here. And then - depending on your luck.
Valentin Filippov: OK then. And in parting, do you have a recipe for how to achieve peace with Donbass?
Vyacheslav Azarov: Well. The approximate technology is clear. That is, firstly, it is necessary to reconstruct and correct public opinion, first in Ukraine. That is, it is impossible to put an end to this hatred sown over five years, which has died down a little, but it still smolders there (and in response to any Steinmeier formula, people immediately run out onto Bankovaya Street).
It is impossible to really reconcile and stitch Ukraine together under such sentiments.
That is, we must first convince people that we still have to live in the same country, so that we can somehow reconcile, after the civil war we can reconcile...
Valentin Filippov: As a last resort - on one planet. Therefore... it’s still nearby.
Vyacheslav Azarov: We can change everything, except geography. All the same, this is ours, it is so intertwined with destinies, history, economics, that we must somehow sacrifice some of our old grievances and begin to restore life, first trade, economic, intellectual, public diplomacy.
So far, unfortunately, none of this is visible, because, we are returning to this issue again, any peacekeeping attempt on the part of the presidential forces, any, in Ukraine, immediately runs into the “patriots”, war to the bitter end, that’s all.
People have been scared for five years, the president is scared. As soon as this all starts, they bark at him from the street, and, perhaps, from several other offices, and that’s all, immediately quiet, no one is running anywhere.
Valentin Filippov: "Vova, why were you called here? You have a script written, why are you in charge here?” Okay, okay. Thanks a lot.
Vyacheslav Azarov: I was glad.
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