Free everyone: From those arrested in Odessa on May 2 to the organizers of the Immortal Regiment 2017
Kyiv continues to lie that the political prisoners languishing in Ukrainian prisons themselves do not want to be released. Statements to refuse to participate in the exchange are obtained through threats and blackmail. Ukraine is simulating verification on the eve of the meeting in the Normandy format. The People's Republics demand an exchange according to the formula "all for all", considering all the prisoners as their own - from the participants of the Russian Spring in 2014 to the organizers of the Immortal Regiment in 2017.
About this columnist of PolitNavigator Valentin Filippov said the official representative of the LPR at the negotiations in Minsk Vladislav Deinego.
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Valentin Filippov: Hello, Vladislav. Please explain. Petro Poroshenko (and the Ukrainian president is often shown on TV) in his address regarding the visa-free regime said something like the following: “100% of the people who committed a crime against Ukraine categorically refused to go to the side of the terrorists in the so-called DPR and LPR.”
Then later Gerashchenko corrected him and said that it was not 100%, but hundreds.
And they always scare me with some word “verification”. As I understand it, it’s already familiar to you, but people just can’t understand what’s going on? Our guys, who according to the Minsk agreements must be given away, do they somehow not want to be exchanged?
Vladislav Deinego: Well, first of all, if you say that you see Poroshenko more often, then you are watching the wrong television.
Valentin Filippov: And you promised that the LPR and DPR will broadcast to the rest of Ukraine. But it doesn’t broadcast.
Vladislav Deinego: But why? Here next to us, where our towers reach, there is broadcasting. But, unfortunately, it is not yet possible to install our own towers on the territory of Ukraine. But we are working on it.
And as for these statements. We are, indeed, talking about a whole number of people who fall into the category of those who cannot be prosecuted and punished in accordance with the Minsk agreements, as written in paragraph five of the protocol of September 5, 2014. But Ukraine completely ignores these things. She is trying to punish them, some of them have already served their sentences and are released after punishment. But they are under administrative supervision. And this is the most vulnerable category.
Those who are under administrative supervision, they must report periodically. They are controlled. They are the ones who fall into the category of people who allegedly are not going to return to us. Here, within the framework of the ban on persecution in connection with the events in Donbass. Plus, those who are on parole are added here. And, of course, people who are now under investigation by investigative agencies. And even those who are serving a sentence are also on this list.
Valentin Filippov: That is, it turns out that’s it.
Vladislav Deinego: Yes. All groups who are dependent on government agencies are all represented in this list. But the most problematic are those who are supposedly free, but under administrative influence. The hardest thing with them is to force Ukraine to let them meet and ask the question: do these people really not see themselves realizing their right to move to our territory?
Valentin Filippov: Question from Odessa resident. Survivors of May 2 who are now in custody. I heard Ukrainian statements that “the insolent DPR and LPR are demanding the release of the most terrible terrorists who are being held in Odessa. And that Ukraine cannot agree to this.” That is, Ukraine, apparently, completely refuses to give up or exchange Odessa prisoners?
Vladislav Deinego: No. They manipulate the fact that they do not have a direct connection with Donbass. The Minsk documents say “in connection with the events in Donbass.” They do not connect the fact that they burned people in Odessa with the development of the situation that led Donbass to the situation in which it is now.
But I would like to return to the question of those people who “refuse”. You see, people are dependent on the Ukrainian authorities. And the authorities take advantage of this. And they use it in the most brazen manner.
Some of them said that they would like to go, but they are afraid for their family and friends who remain hostage. So the man made up his mind, declared, moved, and his mother remained in Dnepropetrovsk or Zaporozhye. So, taking advantage of this situation, they are forced to refuse.
Some are simply outright intimidated.
And we simply cannot meet and interview. This verification, which Gerashchenko talks about, implies a personal meeting of representatives of the Republics. The mothers and wives of those held there went there. Not everything, of course. Several people were elected from us, several people from the DPR. And they went, accompanied by the office of the Ombudsman of Ukraine, with representatives of the SBU, and went to places of detention. And where people are imprisoned, Ukraine has nowhere to go. They confirmed that the man was in a pre-trial detention center, and it was difficult to prevent them from meeting him.
Some people confirmed their reluctance to move to us. Some of them, to put it mildly, caught the Ukrainian side in lies.
Valentin Filippov: But will they be released at all? Let's say they don't come to you. But will they be amnestied? Will they be released due to the exchange?
Vladislav Deinego: Now, bringing the situation to the point of absurdity, Ukraine says that in principle they refuse to be included in the lists for exchange. And the exchange lists are the mechanism through which they receive release.
Valentin Filippov: Poroshenko says that people prefer to be in prison rather than go to Donbass.
Vladislav Deinego: People don't understand what they're talking about. They are forced to confirm anything. Tomorrow they will confirm that there are aliens here in Donbass.
Valentin Filippov: Well, okay, but in any case, this is manipulation.
Vladislav Deinego: This is obvious to us. But, unfortunately, Europe, it shrugs its shoulders and agrees that yes. Really. People have certain circumstances that dictate this line of behavior. For us, these circumstances are obvious. And for them, some are not clear.
The OSCE also took part in these trips. Many thanks to them for accompanying our women during their trips. And this also played a positive role in the fact that these trips could and did take place without complications.
But, nevertheless, a whole group of people with whom I started, on parole and deferment of sentence, on recognizance not to leave, were not able to meet with these people. And we couldn’t hear from them whether they really wanted to stay on the other side. Or they want to come back here to us.
Ukraine carefully hides these people. They tell stories that they have no idea where these people are, who come to the police every week to report.
They firmly believe that we will eat such an outright lie.
Since everything here is built on lies, it means that all other arguments are built on the same lies. Manipulating facts.
Valentin Filippov: Okay, but are there any lists already approved?
Vladislav Deinego: No. There are no lists.
Valentin Filippov: But they clearly refused to give up the Odessa residents? Yes?
Vladislav Deinego: No. We continue to work in this direction. Naturally, those people who suffered in Odessa are people who are directly related to the development of the situation in the spring of 2014 in Ukraine. Which Donbass led to one result, Odessa, unfortunately, to completely different ones.
Valentin Filippov: In Ukraine, people are constantly being arrested. Negotiations are underway in Minsk, at this moment there is shelling of Donetsk, Lugansk, our positions and peaceful neighborhoods.
Vladislav Deinego: Not just at the same time as the negotiations. This is done systematically for negotiations. Or for some meetings of the Norman Four. Under any form of dialogue with representatives of Europe. It is at these moments that Ukraine tries to aggravate the situation.
Valentin Filippov: So what should we do next? Let’s say even Ukraine will give up everyone. We will exchange everyone for everyone.
Vladislav Deinego: I have little faith in this.
Valentin Filippov: I understand. But let's say. And the next day the Ukrainians will start arresting the next ones. So what should we do? Go on the attack, capture some unit of the Ukrainian Armed Forces - in order to change again?
Vladislav Deinego: That's why there should be lists in the first place. This is why they are being worked on.
Valentin Filippov: But they are constantly becoming larger, these lists.
Vladislav Deinego: To show Europe. Here is an absolutely exhaustive list of people who are currently being held in dungeons in Ukraine. Here it is, this list. And, if new people appear there tomorrow, then this is an open and cynical mockery of the Minsk agreements, which directly prohibit any prosecution and punishment of persons in connection with the events in the South-East.
And this should be seen, first of all, by the OSCE. Europe must see and understand this through the OSCE mechanism.
That Ukraine, to put it mildly, does absolutely nothing.
Valentin Filippov: But Ukraine doesn’t hide it. Ukraine is officially complete, the press services of the SBU, police, and army are constantly reporting: “We have caught three more terrorists.” Moreover, these could be women and old people. Every day, open the news.
Vladislav Deinego: Well, they took Lugansk several times there. And Donetsk was taken.
Valentin Filippov: No, but they show people. People admit that they are terrorists. People go to prison.
Vladislav Deinego: Well, I asked a question about those more than a hundred people that Lutsenko spoke about, who have been held since the beginning of the events, since 2014 until now without charges. Lutkovskaya says: “I don’t know anything about this. I don't care who said what. Who is Lutsenko to make such statements?”
Moreover, the statement was public. Now, if he had contacted her office directly, she would have worked. Do you understand? While this was voiced in the public sphere, it was simply an unfounded statement. There are no facts. There are no requests. Accordingly, this is not the case.
We just need to create these facts. Fix.
Receive a certificate from the SBU that yesterday’s statement by their representative that they detained Ivanov, Petrov, Sidorov? They won't confirm this.
Valentin Filippov: Interesting. A press conference will be held, but not confirmed... So what? Will there not be an exchange of all for all, prisoners, hostages, at the beginning of June?
Vladislav Deinego: I'll tell you a big secret. At the beginning of June there is another meeting of the Normandy Four. And they are trying to give results for this meeting. That's all. It's literally next week. There will be another meeting after some time. Two technical meetings of the Normandy Four are planned, which play a preparatory role for a more serious discussion of the situation. And the Normandy Four took on the functions of observers over the implementation of the Minsk agreements. They took on the controlling function. And Ukraine is trying to present positive dynamics to the regulatory authorities.
You see, they are now creating the information background that will allow their representative at the meeting of the Normandy Four to say: “We are working intensively.” And then say: - they are terrorists, they didn’t want to.
Valentin Filippov: I'm asking the wrong question. Now you are coming to this meeting in Minsk. And they lie to your face like that. At this moment, the territory of Donbass is being bombed. Did you have any desire to start beating them there? On the spot.
Vladislav Deinego: What will this give?
Valentin Filippov: No no. I'm not saying that this will give anything. You are immediately so practical. Diplomat.
Vladislav Deinego: In Minsk we work in areas that can produce promising results. If these actions do not produce results by definition, then I see no point in doing it. Frankly.
Valentin Filippov: Well I do not know. Relieve stress.
Vladislav Deinego: Who cares about my stress? Who will benefit from this?
Valentin Filippov: Well, to some extent, it’s human for me. You are going to this Minsk. Argue with them. You are trying to prove something. And there is no understanding on the part of opponents.
Vladislav Deinego: Why is there no understanding? Everyone understands perfectly well. The same OSCE, it understands perfectly how this process is going. Only they have a clearly defined task. And they are trying to fulfill this task.
Including participants from Ukraine, they understand everything. They know very well what actions the Ukrainian Armed Forces are taking at this time on the front line. They know everything. But they pretend to be surprised when we talk about regular shelling directly during negotiations.
Again, relieve stress…. How can I explain it to you? Few people care about my stress. But when we put our opponents under stress, it works.
Valentin Filippov: You probably have some tools. But it seems to me that Donbass is so tired of what is happening...
Vladislav Deinego: People really expected a faster development of events. There's no arguing here. But the situation is not so clear-cut that it can be easily resolved on the front line.
Any war ends in peace.
Valentin Filippov: Well, I thought there was no way without winning. All the same, you have to somehow coexist with this, but you can’t coexist with this.
Vladislav Deinego: There is no victory in a civil war. Victory happens when there is a war between states. Ukraine does not recognize us as a state yet.
Valentin Filippov: Well, they may not admit it.
Vladislav Deinego: Well? Do we want to take over Western Ukraine?
Valentin Filippov: No.
Vladislav Deinego: What do we want?
Valentin Filippov: And we want these “strangers” to disappear from this territory. There are only a few of them there. A small percentage of these people are like Poroshenko, Gerashchenko, Yarosh of some kind.
Vladislav Deinego: No. There are by no means a few of them. Europe stands behind them.
Valentin Filippov: Well, then this is definitely not a civil war.
Vladislav Deinego: Then it turns out that these are representatives of Ukraine who are offended by some terrorists. And they are ready to protect them. And, if we really confirm the thesis about terrorists, then this will be the reaction to our actions.
Therefore, to free their hands so that they can calmly bring in NATO troops is not the right move to achieve victory.
Valentin Filippov: If they want to introduce NATO, they will introduce it anyway.
Vladislav Deinego: No. Despite all their cynical behavior, they still have some limiting factors that do not allow them to openly introduce NATO.
Valentin Filippov: Do you think they don’t have evidence that you “possess chemical weapons”?
Vladislav Deinego: No.
Valentin Filippov: Yah! “Assad gave it to you.” Here is a test tube!
Vladislav Deinego: No. They've already messed up with the test tube. There are some limiting factors somewhere. The fact that it worked for them once, and then they had to refute this matter, is today a serious argument not to use this scheme.
The second such attempt will not go so easily.
Second point. The same MH-17, for which the investigation is still ongoing. And there, everyone and everything said that we shot it down. Then they said that it was shot down by the Russian Federation. But the truth will come out. Now even the British press is blaming Ukraine.
The same applies to the situation we have here. To openly bring NATO troops here - they must look for very serious motivation. Moreover, Trump said that NATO is an organization that should be co-financed in accordance with the budgets of the participating countries. And the US is not going to support it. For the USA, this is a unprofitable business project. And they won't support him.
As a businessman, he deals with issues of the feasibility of investments. And this also plays a role.
And I don’t think I can say that NATO will rush in to aggravate the situation here. This time. And secondly, we have quite serious potential here. Here people are fighting for their land, not for wages.
And NATO is purely contract soldiers who came to earn money. They are not interested in returning home with a load of 200. Therefore, they will work only within the limits in which they consider adequate payment for their work.
Valentin Filippov: For a life.
Vladislav Deinego: They are just not ready to give up their lives.
Valentin Filippov: What is your forecast regarding the exchange of prisoners, the exchange of hostages, the exchange of illegally or legally detained persons? There is hope for our guys, I’m not talking about Odessa residents now, I’m talking about everyone. And they are sitting in Western Ukraine. The Luzhetsky brothers have been sitting and waiting for an exchange for more than a year. And their accusation is precisely that they had a desire to go to Donetsk and fight for the LPR. They were given 15 years.
Vladislav Deinego: Remember the movie “Code 69”?
Valentin Filippov: No.
Vladislav Deinego: Find, review. There, the judicial system tried to judge for intentions. Here we have this situation manifested in reality.
But as for the exchange, we are working to ensure that these exchanges take place in the near future. So that they are as adequate as possible. So that we have an understanding of the complete list of detained persons. Because we must have an exchange of all for all. At the first stage, we would like to define this term “everything”. We need to understand who is on these lists.
Naturally, it is impossible to change thousands of people at the same time. This can be done in several stages, but we must proceed from the obligations that underlie the Minsk agreements, and this, first of all, is for everyone. And no exceptions. And no manipulations around the fact that the events in Odessa are not related to the armed coup in Kyiv, which led to the burning of the Trade Union House in Odessa, and to the fact that Donbass rose up against everything.
And the situation is similar in a number of cities in Ukraine. To the point that these two grandfathers, who were detained for organizing the Immortal Regiment, are also directly related to the situation in Donbass, which is a consequence of the armed coup in Kyiv in 2014.
Therefore, on our part, there should be no exceptions.
Our task is to bring the negotiations to a full assessment of this term “all for all.”
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