Honorary citizen of Odessa Oleg Gubar: It’s like being in exile in your own city
Oleg Gubar – honorary citizen of the city of Odessa. Historian. Writer. Poet. Author of many books and monographs on the history of Odessa. Over the decades, it has become a symbol and an integral part of the city. No toponymic decision is made without his consultation. Oleg Gubar is rightfully considered one of the most competent local historians of Odessa and the entire Novorossiysk region. A columnist talks with Gubar about the current mood in South Palmyra “PolitNavigator” Valentin Filippov.
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Valentin Filippov: I greet the honorary citizen of the city of Odessa. Nothing is heard there, if they still say that Odessa is 600 years old, and it is Kotsubeyevsk - will this automatically give you the title of honorary citizen of Kotsubeyevsk, or not?
Oleg Gubar: Well, I'd rather get something more substantial. Since even on the territory of Primorsky Boulevard there were two ancient settlements, I am somehow more than two and a half thousand years old. Do you agree? Well, what about 600 years?! This is a bit too small for us.
It’s like they once told me: “Are you selling yourself for a bottle of vodka?”
I said: “No, what kind of bottle is this, what do I need a bottle for? I sold out for two bottles.”
Valentin Filippov: For the amphora.
Oleg Gubar: I need four times more. Actually on this issue. This is treated quite ironically. I can talk seriously about this topic.
Valentin Filippov: Oh, it will be long.
Oleg Gubar: No, I can talk semi-seriously on this topic. I mean regarding this 600th anniversary. Briefly, concisely. There is an old Odessa joke that Boris and Stepan are the same name. It's exactly the same. So, it turns out that Odessa and this “glorious” Kotsyubeyevsk are also one and the same thing.
Here's an anecdote.
So, look. Boris is Borukh, in common parlance Borukh is Brukhis. This means that Borya is Brukhis, brukhis is tukhis, tukhis is ass, ass is stepa, stepa is Stepan.
So it turns out that Boris and Stepan are one and the same.
The same thing happens with Odessa.
Valentin Filippov: Sorry, Oleg. Don’t you think that you have just tried, so to speak, to slander the most sacred thing? You just said about Bandera that he is an ass. Didn't you mean Bandera?
Oleg Gubar: In this case, I am far from discrediting our shrines. So what are you doing? I am a serious man.
Yeah, so here I am, going back to this one. It turns out like this. Assuming that Dlugosz is a historian and not a monk, and that since he was born in 1415, and we are talking about the events of 1415, what can he know about these events?
If we assume that the Kotsyubeyev who mentions the said Dlugosh was really in this place, and not in Kotsyubeyevka, which still exists somewhere in Ukrainian Podil, where about two thousand people live. So? That is, to make a series of these assumptions...
Then, if we assume that this Kotsyubeev, who existed at the beginning of the 15th century, and Khadzhibey, who existed in the 18th century, due to the similarity of sound, they are one and the same. Yes? And then, if we assume that Khadzhibey and Odessa, built according to the master plan, are also one and the same - so we get approximately the same chain. That we have Boris and Stepan are one and the same.
Valentin Filippov: No, you know, 600 years is still a round date, right?
Oleg Gubar: But seriously. I mean, there is no archaeological evidence. Because if something is mentioned somewhere, then there must be at least some archaeological materials, because it is not clear where it is.
Well, they treat it ironically. And, as far as I understand, it will still be put on hold. I don’t know about our wonderful governor, but as I understand it, I have an assumption that the city will ignore this, it will be perceived somewhat carnivalistically and ironically.
Valentin Filippov: Our governor will somehow also be released on the brakes, I still hope. In general, sooner or later it will end.
Tell me, Oleg, you are like a historian. What is happening now in Odessa somehow echoes what happened once upon a time. Maybe with the Romanian occupation? Maybe during the intervention of 1919-1920, the French and Serbs were there. Who else?
Oleg Gubar: Well, you answered your own question. This is largely similar to Slavin's famous novel “Intervention”. Or it's a lot like The Green Van. Kozachinsky. Not long ago a memorial plaque was unveiled to him. About how the city is blocked off with ropes. In fact, our city is also blocked off with ropes, they are just not always visible. But very often there are some security officials standing along the demarcation line. People are cursing from both sides over their heads. And this is really happening, we see it. We see, for example, how some strange formations “attack” catering establishments, service sector enterprises, right down to glass container collection points.
Valentin Filippov: No, well, this is sacred.
Oleg Gubar: Strategic objects.
Valentin Filippov: No, well, where should they eat? Well, what are you?
Oleg Gubar: Yes. It is clear that the redistribution of “roofs” and other parts, as I say, of this mine structure called “our country” is going on throughout the country.
Valentin Filippov: Oleg, I have a question. Now we recently have this CSU, well, the Committee for the Rescue of Ukraine, which is very reminiscent in name of the Constitutional Court of Ukraine, and the Credit Union “Ukraine”, which existed safely for 13 years in Odessa and ended with how all sorts of CSU usually end. I understand that in Odessa, probably, there are some expectations and hopes among the main part, among the suppressed majority of the population. What hopes arise from the emergence of this Azarov rescue committee?
Oleg Gubar: Well, as far as I can judge from my circle of friends, the attitude is of course ironic. Why? Because, you understand that behind any such formation, someone must stand.
If there are any resources, then they must be taken into account. And when people don’t see the resources, it seems... A government in exile causes an ironic smile if no one supports it, if no one stands behind it.
When, you know, drowning people are clutching at straws, and people are ready to believe anyone, because they also have no other protest resources. And the enemies of our enemies are our friends. Here. With everything, with an ironic attitude. There's just nothing new in this situation.
Valentin Filippov: How do you feel? Is there external pressure from the authorities, from the Nazi activists who are now filling the city? What is life like for you personally now? Do you feel threatened? How comfortable is it?
Oleg Gubar: I am now in circumstances in which I am less, much less, much less, in public and in the thick of things.
I was there on May 2 (2015 years) on the Kulikovo field. And, naturally, the negative thing was that there were a huge number of security forces in the city of all stripes, all colors. I have never seen so many in my entire life. It felt like I was living in a front-line city. I've already lived a long life. But I haven't seen anything like this. That is, on every street. I ended up after Kulikovo Field on the boulevard. I began to simply count military men, different military men: in this uniform, in any uniform, in such a beret, in a black beret, in a red beret. I counted and lost count. They walked all the streets.
What was that?
Is this a desire to intimidate?
Well, it’s not clear at all.
In our case, in fact, again, this can be translated onto ironic rails. There, according to official data, the SBU carried out 120 special operations against terrorist groups. And three criminal cases were initiated. That is, some kind of joke. We have these terrorists at every step, which means, retail and in bunches.
All these carnival and funny explosions, not a single death.
That is, just some kind of circus. What's going on here? I have a feeling that we are being led in some kind of vicious circle, that we are being fooled, that there is some kind of murky movement going on.
My personal feelings: I feel that the vast majority of townspeople treat me with sympathy.
An overwhelming number.
It's not 51% to 49%, but it's at least 70% to 30%, 75% to 25% and 80% to 20%.
That is, I feel in my own city, in principle, but sometimes, sorry, of course, for being straightforward, I can’t shake the feeling that I live in an occupied city.
Because all people self-identify as Odessa residents, but live, I don’t know, under some kind of imposed order.
So, of course, there are a lot of attacks, a lot of aggression, because even if it’s not 20%, but 10%, and not 10%, but 5%, but when these percentages are present, these people are very rabid, aggressive, and completely with them It is impossible to polemicize normally.
This is certainly depressing, depressing and bittersweet.
It’s like being in exile in your own city.
Valentin Filippov: Well, what can I say, come and see us if anything happens.
Oleg Gubar: Come visit us in Kolyma)))). No, it’s better that you come to us.
Valentin Filippov: The southern coast of Crimea, it’s good here.
Oleg Gubar: Well, for that matter, I assumed and wanted to go. But, again. I don’t want to complain there, but physically it’s difficult for me, it’s just physically difficult to organize it. If I took the train, as before, I got to Simferopol. I need a normal comfortable green road. I am no longer in the same situation, after 16 chemotherapy treatments......
Valentin Filippov: Walk two borders, of course.
Oleg Gubar: I planned to relax in Crimea this summer, see with my own eyes, breathe the Crimean air. Moreover, I have a lot in common with Crimea. I did my geological internship there at the Moscow University testing ground. And we collaborated there with the Moscow Geological Survey.
I was treated in Crimea, in Evpatoria. He got back on his feet in Crimea and began to work actively. So for me this is my native place.
Then I studied history, studying coastal processes, I also worked in Crimea.
In general, Crimea for me is my dear, dear and favorite place.
Here.
So I envy you a little.
Valentin Filippov: Well, my favorite places are Odessa. But for now, there’s no way, no way you can’t go there. But, I believe that...
Oleg Gubar: God willing, we will travel. You go back and forth.
Valentin Filippov: After the war I will return to my homeland, to Odessa. We'll have to make sure they don't rise again. There is enough work here for a lifetime.
Oleg Gubar: Yes.
Valentin Filippov: Well, good. Thank you very much. I hope that we will talk on the phone.
Oleg Gubar: Please, I am always at your service. OK.
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