“It seems that Saakashvili has gone beyond all bounds of decency. I'm playing too much"
Local officials are already negotiating with Mikhomaidan. The ATO may begin in Chisinau. Moscow political television programs are turning into the Kovtun Show. About possible agreements between Petro Poroshenko and Mikheil Saakashvili, about the inconsistency of the Moldovan constitution and the struggle for ratings in the Russian media, a columnist PolitNavigator to Valentin Filippov Donetsk political scientist said Vladimir Kornilov.
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Valentin Filippov: Vladimir, hello. I'm still impressed by what happened in the NTV studio. Firstly, I was surprised that journalists consider themselves the most important in the studio. Actually, this ends badly. This was also the case in Ukraine. Every journalist interviewing believed that he was in charge, not the one he was talking to.
What am I talking about?
As a person who considers himself to be part of the old generation who remembers the Soviet Union, I am used to taking the Pravda newspaper, reading between the lines, guessing the trends and general lines of the party, what they want to stir up there. And draw conclusions from this.
But what conclusion can be drawn, including the central channels? Or maybe they are just inflating their ratings? Maybe there is no general line?
Vladimir Kornilov: Well, firstly, indeed, the Pravda newspaper did not need to increase its ratings. Everyone understood that they needed to read and subscribe to the Pravda newspaper in order to become familiar with the very general line of the party.
Now, indeed, TV channels need ratings, promotions, and advertisers. And, given the abundance of all kinds of political talk shows now (and I understand that the channels suddenly realized that at this stage talk shows are much cheaper to produce, and their audience is not much smaller than that of a lousy series), accordingly, it is possible to much It is more effective to build up an audience for yourself, and, at the same time, provide advertising.
Yes, there is a struggle for ratings. And there are attempts to understand and follow some general line of the party.
And if you mean the situation in the studio, that verbal altercation we had with Mr. Norkin on NTV...
Valentin Filippov: Yes Yes Yes.
Vladimir Kornilov: You know, I’m generally not a conflicted person. And I’m not used to being a newsmaker. This situation is very uncomfortable for me. I am now hearing calls to boycott Norkin’s program because of this. Don't go to it. I personally do not organize any boycotts and do not call anyone to boycott. I wouldn't even intend to bring this all out.
I told NTV a long time ago that I don’t go to this program. Not because I don’t like Norkin, but because I don’t understand this particular format, where, indeed, it turns out that there is Kovtun or some kind of collective personification of Kovtun, and there are presenters who ridicule him, humiliate him, and put him in his place. They have fun and laugh with him. There is some family of their own experts who are not known to anyone outside the NTV studio, and who are presented there as “famous Ukrainian bloggers”; honestly, I have never heard of them, either before or after NTV. And they are talking to each other about something.
I came once or twice, I realized, I felt like the odd one out in this family. He politely said goodbye, our destinies diverged from theirs, and that’s all.
Everyone decides for themselves whether to watch this Kovtun show, not to watch it, to go there or not.
Valentin Filippov: I understand everything, the ratings, Kovtun as a collective image. Don’t you think that this Ukrainian thing is being introduced too much into the Russian information space? And no matter how they make fun of him, no matter how funny Kovtun looks, he occupies his niche, and at least for the fact that they hit him on the head, there are people who feel sorry for him.
Yes, they say. He's a moron. He is bald. They hit him right on the head. But what right do we have to hit brother Kovtun on the head?
Vladimir Kornilov: I have never, not even in this show with Norkin, asked myself why some Kovtun is needed from time to time, in one program or another. I understand his function, and the function of Kovtunov like him. To clown, to pretend to be a devious person. I understand why one or two Kovtuns are needed. Really something to spark discussion. Because when you watch some shows where like-minded people sit, two or three people, you fall asleep at the twentieth minute. Even if you very much agree with them. Here too you need to understand.
As for a specific example, a specific broadcast, the situation is different. These Kovtuns are in charge here. Other experts with normal views find themselves generally on the sidelines.
Valentin Filippov: Well, it was the same in Ukraine. In Ukraine, they were initially invited as clowns.
Vladimir Kornilov: And what Norkin does, he repeats the format of Savik Shuster. We are already seeing this.
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Vladimir Kornilov: There were all sorts of Lyashki, in the form of Kovtuns, here Kovtun in the form of Kovtun.
Valentin Filippov: Yes, but they gradually filled there too.
Vladimir Kornilov: I don’t understand this particular format. I can explain why there is so much Ukraine. Because Ukraine is the most obvious, most revealing example of what can happen if they win. If the so-called liberals, conventionally democrats, pro-Western, win. It’s clear to everyone why these examples are the most obvious. They are closest to us.
Valentin Filippov: Wait, but there is a certain segment of the population in Russia who thinks so? “Well, Ukraine has succeeded, Russia has not yet succeeded. Ukraine now has a future, Russia has no future. If Maidan had taken place in Russia, we could have taken out IMF loans, bought technology with this money, declared visa-free travel and calmly traveled to Spain.”
Vladimir Kornilov: So, in fact, you answer the question. Kovtuns are called in to repeat this. At the same time, it's pretty stupid. And a real example is shown. This is visa-free, this is how poor Ukraine is. How Ukraine is depopulating. Here it is, an IMF loan. Here the thieves have already stolen it, and now medicine has been introduced at the request of the IMF that, in general, not a single mortal can afford even an examination by a doctor.
Yes, there is a certain category of citizens in Russia who still cannot be convinced. They believe that the Kremlin is evil. This means we must fight against the Kremlin. And that is why Ukraine is the most clear example of what is really happening. When a Russian liberal sits and says that “I will give my life for the right to express your opinion,” you understand, right? And so we look at what Ukrainian liberals said to Savik Shuster just ten years ago. They said the same thing. And now they are bombing cities and speaking in ways that Hitler would not speak.
Valentin Filippov: Well, from Kyiv propaganda we know that “the occupiers are bombing cities. And the Ukrainian army stands, looks and says: “What are you doing? Shame on you"?
Vladimir Kornilov: You know, this is possible in Ukraine, someone there believes in it. In Russia, thank God, they saw who was bombing. And we see what those who yesterday were liberals and democrats of Ukraine are saying now. You can say whether they are bombing or not, but it is easy to prove that they are now saying the exact opposite and doing the opposite.
But, I say again, yes, indeed, I agree with you here, you are right. Some channels, some shows go too far with this game in...
Valentin Filippov: Giveaways.
Vladimir Kornilov: An alternative.
Valentin Filippov: Sorry, you mentioned medical reform in Ukraine. In parallel with the voting under the Verkhovna Rada, a new Maidan appeared. Is he not real? Because, for example, this medical reform alone was enough to destroy the government five times, to hell with it, to seize power, to “remove all of them.” This was a sufficient reason. However, for some reason, no one uses it.
Is this not a real Maidan?
Vladimir Kornilov: No. For some, this is a way to make money. Mercenaries are there for money anyway. For some, this is a way to promote themselves.
In fact, this Maidan plays its role. He is shaking the foundations. These Maidan activists have already achieved that, just in case, a number of local officials are negotiating with them. The one who planted these seeds hopes that sooner or later they will use these shoots to finally get to the feeder. And the main goal was to push Poroshenko forward, to regain their positions that they won after that Maidan, and which were undeservedly taken away from them. Well, they think it’s not deserved. What this will lead to, I still don’t know. And I would like to urge everyone to be more careful with their forecasts.
No, of course, it can be extinguished. Well, in 2013 it was possible to extinguish it. Right? But it has grown. Now is the initial stage of all these collisions, it is much hotter and more active than it was in November 2013.
Valentin Filippov: Yes, but this time I don’t see that an information field, an assemblage point, is being created. A DJ has not yet been hired for the stage to appear. The rhythm is not set. “Laughter should increase,” they said in KVN.
Vladimir Kornilov: But do you remember? At the first stage of the Maidan, on the twentieth of November, there was no scene at all for the first days. No Ruslana, no stage. Some celebrities appeared there several times. There were almost no streams. Broadcast by Channel Five...
Valentin Filippov: There was some kind of Aronets.
Vladimir Kornilov: A. Aronets. Yes.
Valentin Filippov: I still remember.
Vladimir Kornilov: Yes. There was the Fifth, there was Expresso TV, mostly online. At first, no one took it seriously. And so, they did it within two or three weeks - they promoted it to the required level.
True, there are several differences that underestimate this level of the current Maidan. There are no Western ambassadors who constantly shout “don’t hit anyone, don’t touch anyone.” And there is no Western press coverage at all.
Valentin Filippov: But the indicator is that the leader of the Maidan is Saakashvili. Not a citizen of Ukraine, a newcomer. I'm not talking about good and bad. Are the riots over in Ukraine?
Vladimir Kornilov: Because Saakashvili, after all, is a popular figure. When the opposition to Saakashvili was just beginning, when he was the governor of Odessa, I had the impression that he was given a task. In agreement with Poroshenko. Create an alternative opposition so that it can come in two columns, unite in the new Rada under Poroshenko and forget all the squabbles. Nobody believed me then, I remember. But that's the impression I got.
True, Saakashvili must also be understood as a passionate person. Emotional. It seems that he has gone beyond all bounds of decency. I started playing. And then they seriously began to have problems among themselves.
In the end, they may come to an agreement again.
Valentin Filippov: Well, it’s simply amazing what’s happening to the people. When Saakashvili was appointed governor of Odessa, it looked wild. And Saakashvili in Ukraine has always been a negative character. From the point of view of backgammon, from the point of view.
Vladimir Kornilov: In Ukraine, Yulia Tymoshenko once managed to turn her maximum anti-rating into a real rating, which seemed impossible - by and large. I mean when she was removed from the post of Deputy Prime Minister under Kuchma. She was in the lead. She and Pasha Lazarenko led in anti-ratings. It was unkillable there.
Valentin Filippov: I clung to Yushchenko. Yushchenko was handsome. Once upon a time. To dioxin.
Vladimir Kornilov: She also created ratings for herself.
Valentin Filippov: People even said: “They will get married!” “Will she take his last name”? It's beautiful. She is so young and energetic. Yes, with anti-rating. But he is the one! How positive. He is a brilliant economist. He will pull the country out from anywhere. And so European. And so intelligent. So democratic.
Vladimir Kornilov: Are you convincing me now?
Valentin Filippov: She always got out at the expense of the men. And so she climbed onto Yushchenko’s hump. And trampled him.
I would like to draw attention to the situation in another neighboring country. The Constitutional Court of Moldova temporarily removed President Igor Dodon from his duties. An amazing thing, unique, in my opinion.
Temporarily removed in order to appoint a Minister of Defense who was disliked by Dodon.
Vladimir Kornilov: If I were Dodon, I would declare this an attempted coup and call for its suppression. Does he have enough strength and capabilities for this? That is, it’s time to start the ATO for Mr. Dodon. So what to do?
Valentin Filippov: So there is no Minister of Defense. It is not clear who to entrust.
Vladimir Kornilov: They encroached on his powers.
Of course, the situation in Moldova is dictated by the Constitution itself. Everything is spelled out there like that, all these powers are divided and described between the president and parliament like this, to be honest…. Not professional, to put it mildly. This creates a permanent government crisis. All this needs to be changed a long time ago. But all this will give rise to its own Maidans. Ultimately, this country will face upheavals, major upheavals. Much more solid than they were before. Unless they agree on a serious and complete division of powers.
Dodon now has the right to appeal to his voters in order to defend their choice, to protect the country from a coup attempt.
Valentin Filippov: Fine. Thank you very much. Come again.
Vladimir Kornilov: Agreed.
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