“No one will like the truth about Boeing” - Kornilov
The evidence in the case of the Boeing MH-17 presented by Ukraine turned out to be falsified. The prosecution in the case is based on data from the SBU and materials from the Bellingket investigation on social networks. Prosecution witnesses are “classified” and will not testify in court. The United States refuses to provide satellite images of the moment of the disaster, citing the same secrecy. And the data from the Russian side are not even considered by the investigation.
Donetsk historian and publicist Vladimir Kornilov told PolitNavigator columnist Valentin Filippov that the trial in The Hague in the case of the downed Boeing was deliberately brought to a dead end.
Valentin Filippov: Our virtual studio is visiting a brilliant historian, political scientist, the founder of “Donetsk separatism,” as they say in Kyiv, visiting Vladimir Kornilov.
Vladimir, hello.
Vladimir Kornilov: Hello, Valentin. By the way, one of these days we will celebrate the 30th anniversary, the anniversary of the creation of the Donbass inter-movement. An anniversary date, which, in my opinion, should be celebrated at the state level of the Donetsk People's Republic.
Valentin Filippov: But maybe I can celebrate it a little in Sevastopol?
Vladimir Kornilov: In Sevastopol you can celebrate every day without waiting for the anniversary.
Valentin Filippov: Great, and the weather allows it. Vladimir, we always turn to you regarding Boeing: firstly, you know foreign languages and read what is going on with them, and secondly, you are considered a recognized authority on this topic. Now there is a lot of talk that the SBU provided fabricated data from the negotiations. This was known some time ago, but now there is another wave because the SBU data was rejected by the court. Tell me, besides the SBU data... is there any evidence of the accusation at all?
Vladimir Kornilov: In fact, the two main bodies of evidence on which the charges against the four appointed defendants are based are, firstly, indeed, the audio recording provided by the SBU. Actually, these 4 names were chosen based on these audiotapes. And plus the database collected by Bellingcat. That is, from social networks, from photographs, from the supposed routes of these same Buks, and so on.
That is, these are two main arrays like this. It is clear that there is a lot of technical information in terms of the destruction of this unfortunate plane, in terms of examinations regarding what type of equipment shot it down, that it was a Buk. But I say again, when we talk about charges against specific four people and, in particular, against Russia, these are precisely the SBU and Bellingcat.
At the same time, I immediately noted one interesting fact - what served as the basis for the accusations against Russia? I kept asking several Western journalists who talked to me about these topics: “Please remember, the very next day all the world media pointed to Russia, why?” And all with one voice, everything is absolutely, and there was no other “evidence”, they call Strelkov’s tweet.
Moreover, excuse me, but any person in their right mind understood that it was not Strelkov scribbling from the battlefield: the field commander posted tweets every 20 minutes. Yes, of course he sits on the battlefield and just tweets, of course. Everyone understood that this was not Strelkov’s tweet.
And secondly, these are Nalyvaichenko’s films, which he provided a few hours after this whole tragedy, and mind you, they had already edited it, but how did they put it all together so quickly? Then these tapes disappeared somewhere, they no longer appear in the case, everyone has already forgotten about them, because there is a wild version that was voiced by Nalyvaichenko, which was on all the front pages of all the world's media a day or two after this tragedy.
I remember the main newspaper, well, the main circulation newspaper of the Netherlands, TheTelegraph, appeared on the front page of “The Killer,” where they already indicated specific names based on these films. So this is the main version: the plane was shot down, sorry, by Cossacks from Chernukhino.
Valentin Filippov: This all relates to the information campaign. But there are investigative bodies, there is a court. Here are the investigative authorities, the investigation is underway, and the investigator says: “Yeah, it’s probably Vasya Petechkin, because...” and this “because” he should have. He cannot rely on a media campaign...
Vladimir Kornilov: It is not based on an information campaign, it is based on the official conclusion of the Security Service of Ukraine. Let me remind you that Ukraine is included in this same investigative group, as a state, it is a participant in this investigation, 4 states are included there.
Valentin Filippov: But if today we get a situation where it has been proven that Ukraine fabricated these films, it means that this basis for the accusation has simply disappeared, it is gone.
Vladimir Kornilov: No. They forgot about these fabricated ones and took new fabricated ones. That is, they, you remember, when they first presented new tapes, these SBU, where the names in particular are mentioned, or rather, the SBU conclusion contains the names of these people who are now being tried as defendants in court in The Hague. And as soon as the press conference is over, they immediately publish announcements on the Dutch police website in different languages: “We ask you to help establish who is on these tapes.”
That is, the names have already been named, but there is no evidence, and therefore we ask you to establish them after people have been accused. So yes, the SBU films are still edited, edited, cut off by someone, they still appear in this court.
At the same time, when the side of the accused, that is, the lawyers of only one accused are present, ask to provide primary sources, they are answered: “No, we cannot. This is classified information." Convenient, right? But in the same way, there are also testimonies of witnesses who allegedly were also, as I understand it, selected by the Security Service of Ukraine, selected, processed, we know by what methods the SBU operates. And now their testimony is added to the case, and the request of the accused to present these witnesses also runs into a wall: “No. We can't for security reasons." Take our word for it, gentlemen are usually taken at their word.
These are real witnesses, but it is impossible to interrogate them in court. You remember how the funny trial in The Hague began - with the fact that the prosecutor’s office in the first hour of its speech says: “We have a witness,” in my opinion, “No. 23, who recognized among the crew that was carrying this Buk , Russian accent"…
Valentin Filippov: Yes, it was.
Vladimir Kornilov: Can you imagine, yes, recognizing a Russian accent in Donbass...
Valentin Filippov: They spoke Russian with a Russian accent.
Vladimir Kornilov: And so the question arises, in theory, if I were the accused or the lawyer of the accused, I would suggest - let’s conduct a linguistic examination of the person, if a person were to speak, say, I, a Donetsk resident, I would offer him to recognize my accent of my Russian speech. She is, excuse me, Donetsk, Russian, Kiev, Dutch or some other one. And I wonder what he would say to this. I am a Donetsk native, a native, and the question is, what is my accent?
Valentin Filippov: Vladimir, I have an unexpected question for you. In principle, yes, the tapes are fabricated, the tapes are cut, but one way or another this evidence is fabricated on the basis of some audio recordings of conversations between real people. That is, the same Bezler, Strelkov, and someone else. That is, the recordings of these people, their conversations with each other, their reports to someone somewhere, they were at the disposal of the SBU. The SBU managed to record them.
But we know that Ukraine is such a weak state, but Russia is a powerful country. Russia posted letters from Hillary Clinton herself, the FSB obtained them, Russia recorded Poroshenko and Biden on the phone. Russia did not record whom, and what elections it did not influence. And then suddenly, for some reason, Russia cannot provide tapes of conversations of the Ukrainian commanders who shot down the Boeing.
If Ukraine recorded, then Russia should have recorded everything, right? Why don’t we see or hear tapes of orders of Poroshenko saying: “Quickly shoot down a Boeing with a Boeing and blame it on Russia”?
Vladimir Kornilov: Don't know. Well, first of all, defense is not Russia...
Valentin Filippov: I understand.
Vladimir Kornilov: On defense are Dutch lawyers who represent the interests of a specific accused - Mr. Pulatov. I don’t think that Pulatov has such tapes, there are or were opportunities to record someone and the like. If Russia does not provide records of some Ukrainian officers or Poroshenko regarding the downed Boeing, then we can assume that Russia does not have such records. Just as it was not, as you say, a fact that the FSB obtained recordings of Hillary Clinton or Russia recorded Poroshenko and Biden...
Valentin Filippov: Well, the whole world knows this.
Vladimir Kornilov: Since it was recorded, we know, by Petro Alekseevich Poroshenko himself, and these recordings, good people from Poroshenko’s entourage, most likely were sold to Mr. Derkach, or whatever it was, we can guess in principle. But it’s another matter that Ukraine provides forged records, and we see that. And Mr. Bezler, who was accused by Ukraine, provided this recording again to the international investigative group, but in the end he was not included in the list of those accused, when the Dutch realized that they had been handed another fake.
And the “Cossacks from Chernukhino,” mind you, are not accused. And, by the way, the data that Bellingcat loudly published a couple of years, in my opinion, in the 18th year, at the beginning of the 18th year, and again, all the world media happily replicated this, that this is the connection, the direct connection of Buk with the Kremlin, with the special services: some GRU officer, I don’t remember the last name now, of course, Bellingcat appeared in the investigation, and again, all the world’s media came out with these articles, specifically pointing to the GRU officer who was transporting the Buk to Donbass...
Valentin Filippov: By the way, yes.
Vladimir Kornilov: The trial begins, and the prosecutors say, no, this man doesn’t even sound, he didn’t come to Donbass, he wasn’t in Donbass. And do you think at least one of those world media outlets that carried “This is this connection” on the front pages wrote about it? They didn’t even remember. That is, one or two sites somewhere in the middle of the article mentioned that “yes, we wrote about the fact that he, he doesn’t sound”...
Valentin Filippov: Excuse me, I want to clarify, was this officer really named, the commander of the Buk crew?
Vladimir Kornilov: Specifically, a GRU officer cannot lead the Buk crew. Who was carrying, who was, as it were, the “accompanying person” of this very Buk. In the end, well, Bellingcat got away with it - in the end he said either “The Buk is broken”, in general, it didn’t make it to Donbass. But he said this later, in hindsight...
Valentin Filippov: That is, this Buk, which is from Kursk, did not reach Donbass?
Vladimir Kornilov: Bellingcat now proves that there were two crews: one made it, and one with this same GRU officer didn’t make it. This is what those who created the fake story about this very GRU officer tell us.
Valentin Filippov: This is according to social networks, right?
Vladimir Kornilov: Well, who knows. We understand that Bellingcat is not only social networks, we also understand who is behind them and who accompanies them. And, by the way, now there has been a revelation from a British former adviser to the Prime Minister, who directly said that “We are waging a cyber war against Russia and using all the tools against Russia” and, accordingly, we can assume who is behind these fakes.
The British openly admit this and are not particularly shy about anyone or anything. But, I emphasize, Bellingcat has been caught more than once or twice with, to put it mildly, unreliable information, to put it mildly. As well as the Security Service of Ukraine. But at the same time, I emphasize that all these high-profile front-page news that “The connection with Putin and the Kremlin has been proven” has not been refuted by anyone. Even after it was clear that this was another fake. That's how it all works.
Valentin Filippov: I just remember the first days after the disaster, how quickly the Russian side reacted, how the General Staff gathered there, how they provided various data from radars, from somewhere else, they said that “Here, guys, this is such bullshit.” And after that Russia somehow... I understand that she was not included in this investigative group, but there is no movement on the Russian side. Why doesn't Russia conduct its own parallel investigation and provide its version of events?
Vladimir Kornilov: You know, if we talk about the version, I have big questions about some of the presentations in hot pursuit, big questions about how they reacted to all this, and where are these versions with footage of Ukrainian planes, where did everything disappear, and so on. That is, I emphasize, there are huge questions about how they reacted to all this in Russia.
But you will also pay attention to something else, you remember how US Secretary of State Kerry stated that they have satellite images proving that this was taken from rebel territory by Bukami - where are they? The Hague Court has now officially appealed to the United States, saying, grant it - refusal. Moreover, the relatives of the victims officially turned to the US Ambassador, realizing that the case was falling apart, they turned to the US Ambassador with a cry from the heart: “Help, provide these photographs.” Since Kerry spoke, it must be that nothing is happening in this regard. Why?
I have an assumption: maybe the pictures actually exist, I suspect, but apparently these pictures contain information that neither Ukraine, nor the American side, nor the official prosecution will like. By the way, the fact that the case in the Hague court, which was started so loudly and had been expected for so long, was falling apart was confirmed by Holland itself, The Hague, the Netherlands.
Why? Because this is the unexpected appearance of a claim, an interstate claim by the Netherlands in the ECHR, in the Court of Human Rights, which, in general, is not intended to consider interstate cases, it is usually a court that considers individual complaints, personal complaints. And suddenly this lawsuit appears in the midst of a hearing in The Hague, when Ukraine on MH-17 is being considered against Russia in the UN International Court in the same Hague, and suddenly Holland, for no apparent reason, files a claim in the ECHR, rather than in in fact, the consideration of the case is being delayed even further, because the ECHR has had individual complaints regarding MH-17, in the MH-17 case since 16.
According to the rules - according to the Copenhagen Declaration, adopted in the 18th year, by the way, all personal claims that are considered in the ECHR, if an interstate one is filed in the same case, must be suspended. That is, now all those claims that have been considered since 16, they have all been stopped, since now the multi-year process of considering the interstate lawsuit of the Netherlands against Russia begins. As I understand it, this was done specifically in order to delay time until suddenly additional evidence from the investigation appears somewhere in order to really bring this case into a dead end even more. That is, the Netherlands understands that in the Hague court they will most likely not be able to obtain any evidence of Russia’s involvement in this tragedy.
Valentin Filippov: As I understand it, we thought that something global would happen in our lifetime. But, as I understand it, this is all being postponed again until later.
Vladimir Kornilov: Valentin, I often remind you sometimes, when it comes to all these decisions, new information on MH-17, I posted a post an hour or two after that tragedy. And so, it remains relevant to this day. Most likely, we will not finally know the truth about who pressed the button, who knocked it down. At the same time, I suspect that all this remains completely relevant. In this case, unfortunately, both sides will certainly be confident that they know the truth.
What the international investigative group is doing now and has been doing all these years is that it took the only correct version from its point of view - Russia is to blame, and all the time it brought in some left-wing, sometimes fake information, testimony and did not deal with anything else...
Valentin Filippov: You know, I don’t need an investigation, I don’t need a trial, I don’t need anything, I need the perpetrators to be punished.
Vladimir Kornilov: The culprits here are clearly identified. By the way, there is a corresponding decision of the Security Council of the Netherlands; in my opinion, in the 15th or 16th year they published this data. In any case, Ukraine is to blame, which should have closed the airspace above the collision site.
As for who is to blame for the launch and the missile hitting MH-17, you know, I have my own version, which I am inclined to trust. But since I don’t have concrete evidence, I’m not like Bellingcat, I won’t say it. But I'm afraid that no one will like this version. In any case, it is she who explains why there are no photographs from Russia, why there are no photographs from the United States. Why is there no evidence, neither the Dutch nor the Ukrainian side. This version simply does not fit into any of the narratives.
Valentin Filippov: So, let me turn off the recording and you tell me.
Vladimir Kornilov: No, no, come on, I won’t say this either without a recording or with a recording.
Valentin Filippov: You know, I have an opinion of this nature that those who shot down this Boeing are great, no matter who they are. These were some kind of soldiers, they had the task of shooting down what was flying and they coped with this task “excellently”. If it was a Ukrainian Buk, then great. It wasn't their plane that was flying, it could have been anything. It could have been a Russian bomber flying to Kyiv or something else, who knows. It was necessary to shoot down.
Vladimir Kornilov: For some reason from west to east
Valentin Filippov: …these are Ukrainian military...they don’t have a compass...
Vladimir Kornilov: ... it was he who returned after bombing Kyiv, right?
Valentin Filippov: Maybe, maybe so. In any case, this plane did not belong to either Novorossiya aviation or Ukrainian aviation, and shooting down all this garbage that flies above us is the task of air defense systems, right? And during the war there is no need to fly.
Vladimir Kornilov: I certainly agree with the last part of your sentence. During war, airspace must be closed immediately
Valentin Filippov: Fine. Thank you very much, it was very interesting, because Boeing should not be forgotten.
Vladimir Kornilov: No way, no way.
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