“Russians in Odessa should act like Albanians in Yugoslavia”
The only way for Russians to survive in Ukraine may be to create a parallel society. Russians must learn to ignore Ukrainian government structures. Russians should study and be treated by Russian teachers and doctors. Purchase goods from Russian-speaking sellers. Receive information only from Russian-language media. Odessa, where small business and entrepreneurship are most developed, can become the center for the formation of such a society.
PolitNavigator columnist Valentin Filippov was convinced that Novorossia would be united by the idea of joining Russia by the Ukrainian political emigrant political scientist Oleg Khavich.
Valentin Filippov: Ukraine dreams of European integration. Our guest is the European-integrated Oleg Khavich, who has long fulfilled the dream of all the Maidans and integrated into the European Union individually - having left for Poland after searches by the SBU for holding conferences on the observance of minority rights by the Ukrainian authorities.
Hello Oleg.
Oleg Havich: Good evening.
Valentin Filippov: Oleg, we are all “under the impression” of the recently published appeal of Ukrainian religious leaders to Crimea and Donbass by Zelensky’s headquarters.
Oleg Havich: I am very skeptical about this video product from the Kvartal 95 studio. Well, firstly, only some of the people there can be called religious figures, these are all rabbis.…
Valentin Filippov: Primarily .
Oleg Havich: No, everyone who was in the frame are religious figures, Metropolitan of the UOC Onuphry is certainly a religious figure. And some of the Muslim figures who were in the frame are also... They can be called religious figures.
I cannot call Filaret and some of the Muslim radicals who were in the frame under the guise of imams-ipaps a religious figure, at least from a purely formal point of view. These are impostors, self-saints who have nothing to do with the generally recognized religion. These are political figures, or socio-political figures, whatever, just people who make money by calling themselves that, selling this so-called religious product.
This is about my personal attitude towards this video production.
This is aimed at part of Zelensky’s electorate, who really want peace, and who want peace at any cost. And Zelensky, who for a very long time will not have any levers of influence on the situation in the country in general, and on the front line in particular, is thus launching this simulacrum in order to reassure some of his... I wanted to say - viewers...
Valentin Filippov: Well, spectators...
Oleg Havich: ... in this situation there are voters, but he obviously perceives them as spectators. Because this is a familiar form of communication for him. And so he reassures them that, like, guys, everything is fine. I understand that you are all waiting for the show, the inauguration with blackjack and something else.
Valentin Filippov: With whores. Let me tell you – with whores...
Oleg Havich: They said that we would have “tricks”. With blackjack and chips. You understand how they sold tickets to people for expensive money, people filled the hall, sat, waited for half an hour, an hour, and nothing happened on stage. Well, in general, you can grab it. Well, there is no main show yet... In fact, people are waiting not so much for the inauguration as for the landings that were announced during the election campaign.
Valentin Filippov: Yes Yes Yes.
Oleg Havich: Well, here there are not only no plantings, but even no inauguration.
Valentin Filippov: In fact, many people voted for him so that Poroshenko would leave, but Poroshenko is not leaving, he is going to run for the Verkhovna Rada and plans to gain a large percentage.
Oleg Havich: Yes, of course it will be so. But the question here is not only about Poroshenko himself. Of course, his personal political will is important, and it plays a certain role in this process. But, on the other hand, Poroshenko is playing along with the West. And the European Union is simply playing along directly. Because he was invited to these events on May 13-14 in Brussels on the tenth anniversary of the so-called “Eastern Partnership” - a stillborn EU program for which money is simply written off, but it’s beautiful, everyone likes it, and he was weird there: he handed out orders, talked about his great role in the establishment of this program and so on.
And the excuses of the European Union, moreover, completely anonymous sources reported that “Well, they say, the inauguration has not happened yet, so we are inviting the current president.” Listen, 5 years ago, on June 6, 6, Poroshenko, as a private person, well, not a private person, but the elected president of Ukraine, who had not yet been inaugurated, took part in a much higher-level summit in Normandy. That is, he met with Putin, Merkel, and Hollande there. Actually, the Normandy process began, and it was the day before his inauguration, it was June 7, and the inauguration was on the XNUMXth in Kyiv. That is, the fact that he had not yet been inaugurated did not bother anyone. He represented Ukraine.
Valentin Filippov: No, well, Yanukovych won’t come instead. Yanukovych was already in Rostov.
Oleg Havich: That's not the point. He could simply not have been invited. I understand that inviting Turchinov would be even funnier than not inviting anyone, but he was invited, and it didn’t bother anyone.
That is, everything indicates that, roughly speaking, Poroshenko was socially close to the entire European, and more broadly Western, nomenklatura even then and, moreover, became so in 5 years.
The man who signed the enslaving association agreement threw the Ukrainian economy at the feet of Europe, which has gone into ruins over these 5 years. True, not so much thanks to European efforts, but thanks to the closure of the market with Russia, but this was not done by Brussels, all these decisions were made by the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine, which was de facto led all these years, and continues to be led by Poroshenko. That is, they adopted some kind of sanctions yesterday or today again, I really didn’t read into it...
Valentin Filippov: Do not need.
Oleg Havich: ... whoever gives what kind of plywood, they banned the supply of plywood there.
Valentin Filippov: Don’t occupy your brain, don’t memorize, don’t.
Oleg Havich: No, well, just plywood, flying plywood is a certain image. And when the Ukrainian Cabinet of Ministers prohibits the supply of plywood, it looks funny in the square.
Returning to the fact that Poroshenko is not leaving, he has the support of the West, and he has obvious support from the United States, because everyone has already been reminded of the situation a hundred times by Biden, how Biden simply turned this whole country around on the phone with Poroshenko, well, this This is not the only case where major decisions were made over the phone even after Biden.
That is, if the States wanted Poroshenko to leave, to stop dealing with all this garbage, which he has been doing there for the third week, they would have scheduled the inauguration for the 19th.
One phone call from someone other than Trump would be enough for this. I think even a call from a person of Pompeo’s level, or at least Pence, who seemed to be going to Zelensky’s inauguration, would be enough.
Valentin Filippov: Or maybe we all underestimate Ukraine and the Ukrainian elite? Maybe they are just truly independent people, truly sovereign people and running a sovereign power?
Oleg Havich: Well, this is a good version, beautiful.
In fact, I am personally sure that the West really does not understand that it is dealing with a fraudster...
I have experience communicating with Polish, how can I say, colleagues. Really smart guys, analysts. And so they ask me questions, well, to roughly translate, they don’t ask like that, they are polite people, but if we translate into human language then:
“But these Kyiv guys, are they sending Poland to hell?”
I say yes",
“Aren’t they afraid that Poland will stop supporting them?”
I say "No",
The Poles were so thoughtful: “Well, look, our politicians are puffing out their cheeks menacingly and making statements like this!”
And they list to me this series of statements,
I say: “Guys, I know all these statements, I analyzed them, wrote some reports and so on. But, you know what’s the matter, until all these statements, or at least one of them, turn into some kind of materially and financially unprofitable action for Poroshenko personally, he considers it spam. White noise. He doesn't hear them at all. That is, no matter what Kaczynski or Duda says, no matter what terrible punishments he promises, until a container with Roshen sweets is detained, and it is gutted and a kilogram of cocaine is suddenly found in it...”
Valentin Filippov: By the way, it happens. It happens in candies.
Oleg Havich: Bang! Found in Roshen sweets. Now, if this happens, Pyotr Alekseevich will immediately think about it. And then, by the way, his analysts will be to blame, because they also write to him, probably, that here the evil Kaczynski said something, and Pyotr Alekseevich is clearly throwing it all into the trash can.
Valentin Filippov: Ukraine protects the whole of Europe from Russian aggression, and the Poles are generally parasites.
Oleg Havich: And now, if we translate this phrase into what it really is, that is, America, with the help of Ukraine, is at war with Russia at little cost.
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Oleg Havich: This is the only value that Ukraine represents. In this regard, there is such a point, but exactly the opposite - there is no sovereignty here.
Valentin Filippov: Today, the same situation is happening as in 2014. The old president seems to be legitimate. But he is no longer legitimate, legitimacy has been lost, well, 75% voted against him. The new president has not been inaugurated. Isn't this a window of opportunity, a corridor? Maybe now Russia could make some decision and restore some order? Well, maybe save someone, maybe protect someone?
Oleg Havich: It’s a sad question and obviously my answer for our listeners will be sad. Russia decided quite a long time ago that it is not interested in Ukraine. And this was clearly done...
Many people say in hindsight that this was done in 2003, but certainly in 2005. Since 2005, Russia's strategy has not changed, unfortunately. This is import substitution, this is cutting off economic ties with Ukraine. And since 2014, this has been the removal of human material - I apologize for this wording - I did not mean anything offensive.
Valentin Filippov: Human resource.
Oleg Havich: Yes, human resources from Ukraine to replace the demographic hole in which Russia now finds itself. No matter how sad it may be for conventional political Russians...
After the adoption of this language law, when it had not yet been signed, I wrote such a very sad blog, maybe you read it. Russian or Russian-speaking, whatever you like, residents of Ukraine have two options. Either disappear... in this situation, assimilation or migration are equivalent - this is the disappearance of political Russians, or go through the creation of a parallel society.
Follow the path that the Kosovar Albanians took. Who in the 60s decided that they were creating a parallel society in Yugoslavia. They simply abstracted themselves from communist power, they created a complete system... An Albanian only went to an Albanian doctor, Albanian children did not go to public schools...
Valentin Filippov: Well, the way Jews behave in Odessa.
Oleg Havich: Yes. We have already discussed this. These are the two ways. And I wrote in this text that if for Ukrainian Russians, or Russians who, by chance, ended up in territories that were a failed state of Ukraine, and for whom returning to Russia is important, and not obtaining a Russian passport, then they should follow this path. But this does not mean at all that I am calling on specific people to do this, because I myself chose to emigrate.
Valentin Filippov: Well, Oleg, you and I chose to emigrate so as not to go to prison, right?
Oleg Havich: Yes.
Valentin Filippov: You understand, what choice do Russians have in Odessa? There is no outside help.
Oleg Havich: No, and there won’t be.
Valentin Filippov: No, and it won’t be... well, compared to the Jews, who have outside help and who open their own schools and live in their own community...
Oleg Havich: They have their own security in these schools. And the synagogue has its own security.
Valentin Filippov: I’m saying that the Russians have another problem, besides the fact that there are no external sponsors for all this, people who will organize it and will somehow be most noticeable, they will be in prison. And, by and large, today, Odessa Russians are the most passionate and most capable of organizing something; they are either in prison or in exile. And as new ones like this appear... It is clear that leaders are being reproduced... they will be cut down again and sent to prison.
Oleg Havich: There is still an important point here. It's not the 60s now after all. Now there is no need for leaflets, no need for physical leaders. If all the instructions for organizing a parallel society can hang on an open website, which you can’t block, because even the Chinese can’t do it...
You can feel whatever way you like about Gene Sharp and his instructions on color revolutions, but they work. They work not only there, in Serbia, Georgia and Ukraine, but also in Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan, elements work. They work great in Russia, as yesterday and the day before yesterday showed...
Valentin Filippov: They are working right now...
Oleg Havich: ...the events currently taking place in Yekaterinburg. This does not mean that Gene Sharp or 10 State Department agents came to Yekaterinburg and organized everything there. No, they just laid it all out, everyone read it and, to the best of their ability, began to implement all this training manual, that’s all.
Valentin Filippov: You convinced me. We open the “Parallel Russia” project on PolitNavigator and explain to Odessa residents how to tell all these assholes to go to hell.
Oleg Havich: That's true. In general, I believe that Odessa is the most prepared city for such a society. Because such a network of underground... well, not just underground, but informal business that exists in Odessa does not exist in any city in Ukraine.
There was a similar one in Lviv in the 70-80s, when they were twin cities for smuggling, prostitution, and other underground business. Yes, it was controlled by the KGB, but such liberties were allowed.
But in Lviv all this has practically died. And in Chernivtsi this was, and this too has practically died, but in Odessa this has largely remained, there are hundreds of thousands of people who are engaged in business and do not pay taxes to the Ukrainian state.
They really wouldn’t pay a Russian, although maybe out of respect...
Valentin Filippov: No no no. The Odessa dream is about Porto-Franco, and what is Porto-Franco? This is not paying taxes.
Oleg Khavich: There are still illegal cable television providers in Odessa.
Valentin Filippov: They are legal, they just pay money and work.
Oleg Havich: Returning to this, Odessa could become a testing ground and such a beacon for the rest of Ukraine: “Stop, guys, this is possible, it works.” And nothing can be done about this, it’s like trying to grab water with your hands. Yes, you can spank, but you’ll just wet your hands and that’s it. But the water will remain, no matter how you scoop up handfuls of water, it will still flow out.
Moreover, the authorities are still crooked... of course they will try to do something, but it will be as funny as two girls who were photographed with a non-existent poster were detained in Kazakhstan now.
Well, of course, the girls are unpleasant that they were pressed for three hours in the local cops... Well, in reality, there are two girls standing, holding a non-existent poster, and the locals are detaining them for this. Well? And further? What can they be charged with? They became funny to the whole world. The same thing will happen now.
The question here is not even about planned repressions, imprisonments, and so on, but about this street terror, which now exists primarily under the roof of the SBU, but the cops, unfortunately, are also largely involved in this.
Valentin Filippov: Unfortunately, the stuffed face of the “activist” attracts an article for encroachment on territorial integrity.
Oleg Havich: Yes, “activists” can stab a passerby and say that they are victims. It’s important here... and this moment the construction of a parallel society, at least, will not immediately solve it, because... at some stage, when it has already been built, this terror will not solve anything, because people like Sternenko, they will simply disappear. Then in a couple of years they will be found somewhere with concrete blocks in the sea.…
Valentin Filippov: This is not a problem now.
Oleg Havich: For now, problem. Because none of them have disappeared yet.
Valentin Filippov: And none of the residents of Odessa have made a decision yet, have not realized that only we ourselves...
Oleg Havich: If this understanding comes, then Odessa can become, precisely Odessa, can become the center of this circle, which will attract others. Classical Novorossiya in Ekaterinoslav, Elisavetgrad, Kharkov, Zaporozhye. It is still very difficult to overcome the internal competition between these large cities. Well, okay, Elisavetgrad is a small town. But Odessa, Ekaterinoslav, Zaporozhye, Kharkov are big cities...
Valentin Filippov: Still far from each other.
Oleg Havich: The question is not that they are far from each other. Each of them feels like a capital to one degree or another. While Moscow was there, this issue did not exist. It doesn’t matter whether it’s Moscow or St. Petersburg, this question in principle could not arise. If we live to see the formal liquidation of this ugly brainchild of the Belovezhskaya Accords called Ukraine, then it will be very difficult to unite these four large cities of Novorossiysk with some other idea other than, in fact, joining Russia.
Valentin Filippov: Fine. I understood one thing from this whole monologue. That Ukraine should worry, because we will return one day. We are only emigrants, only political emigrants. We'll be back.
Oleg Havich: Well, see you at the ruins of the Kyiv regime.
Valentin Filippov: With pleasure.
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