Russian intelligence officer: “For young SBU officers, Nazi views have become mainstream”
How do owners of expensive cars and apartments and those who steal cables to feed their families get along within the Ukrainian secret service? Why didn’t the executioners of the SBU consider the Russians of Donbass to be people? Will Bakanov’s department try to shake up the situation in Russia before the State Duma elections?
Ex-SBU lieutenant colonel Vasily Prozorov, who defected to Russia, told PolitNavigator about this and much more.
Dossier:
Vasily Nikolaevich Prozorov was born in Berdyansk. From 1999 to 2018 he worked in the Security Service of Ukraine in operational positions. Since May 2014, he worked in the central office of the SBU, at the headquarters of the Anti-Terrorism Center. Lieutenant Colonel in the position of “senior expert consultant”. Since April 2014, based on personal convictions, he began to cooperate with Russian intelligence services. I witnessed the atrocities and murders that took place in the secret SBU prison in Mariupol. Around 2019, he moved to Russia, where he made loud revelations about the Ukrainian intelligence service, published the book “Point of No Return” and founded an agency UkrLeaks, which publishes investigations into the actions of the Kyiv regime.
Recently, the SBU has again begun to be mentioned in connection with high-profile scandals, in particular with the attempt to destroy the organization of Ilya Kiva and the use of a “citizen from Gorlovka” in this, which Kiva himself connects with the personality of an employee of the Kharkov branch of the SBU, a certain Diaghilev. And also with the discovery of the hanged corpse of an detective from department “T” of the Dnepropetrovsk SBU, who in his suicide note blamed his own superiors for his death. How would you comment on everything that happened?
– The use of false witnesses and provocations in general is the current brand of the SBU. This actively began to sprout during the period when Vasily Gritsak headed the service. Then the Service became just a factory for producing fake information. And this was explained simply - by a catastrophic decline in professionalism and the desire of Gritsak and the company to increase their importance in the power structures.
As for the situation with the senior detective for particularly important cases of the main department “T” of the SBU Directorate in the Dnepropetrovsk region... It’s difficult for me to judge without complete information. I must say that by the time such an operational position is achieved (this is the maximum that a pure operative can achieve), the employee has already acquired a considerable amount of cynicism, psychological stability, sufficient experience and authority. What had to happen to an employee for him to commit suicide is difficult to imagine. Moreover, in his suicide note he allegedly indicates those responsible for his death - these are his immediate superiors.
One can only imagine what the situation was like in department “T” of Dnepropetrovsk, how the leaders put pressure on their subordinates, that the senior officer on especially important cases committed suicide. However, this may generally indicate a deteriorating situation within the service itself.
The famous blogger Anatoly Shariy, without hesitation, calls the current SBU a criminal organization, do you agree with such a statement?
– To some extent, yes. I have repeatedly told how I witnessed crimes committed by SBU officers in Donbass. It is very scary to watch how people transform when they find themselves in a situation of permissiveness and impunity. And how, for example, a young officer of the analytical department begins to regularly torture people, clearly enjoying it. The management turned a blind eye to this.
What else does Shariy mean... The top of the SBU, in order to increase its importance, implement plans and demonstrate “professionalism”, does not take into account laws and rules. False witnesses and provocations have become common practice.
But I wouldn't generalize this to the entire organization. Most of the employees are ordinary people who live by the principle “my house is on the edge.” Their task is to survive until retirement and quit. If you succeed, make some money. Contrary to the general stereotype that all sbushniks live luxuriously, this is not so. A striking example is that in February 2019, in Zaporozhye, two majors of the regional administration were detained who were stealing cables in order to hand over non-ferrous metal wires for acceptance. These are my former colleagues, I knew them while serving in Zaporozhye, and I’ll be honest – these are people who lived on one salary. And by the way, in the Security Council of Ukraine it is not that high.
But, of course, there is another side to the coin. There are entire divisions, mainly within the structure of the Main Directorate for Combating Corruption and Organized Crime and the Main Directorate for Counterintelligence Protection of the Economy, which can afford expensive cars, expensive apartments, and much more. Such employees can be said to be embedded in the corruption network of the SBU and control various profitable industries; smuggling, drug trafficking, fraud in the land, credit, financial and fuel and energy sectors.
And such employees, of course, do not bother themselves to comply with the law. For such SBU officers, the orders of a higher-ranking person in a corrupt system are more important than the law, charter or norms of ethics and morality. Money comes first.
You have repeatedly said that the ideology of Nazism and revanchism is actively penetrating into today’s Ukrainian intelligence services. In your opinion, when did this start, after the second Maidan or earlier? And why is there no resistance to this within the structure itself—there is a rotation of personnel?
– It’s difficult to say when it started. Before the Maidan, it was impossible for the Service to speak openly about one’s radical views. But since 2014, especially in the ATO zone, any hidden vices in people, cruelty, hatred began to appear. This did not receive the proper reaction from above and remained unpunished. Such emotions were cultivated and expanded. Of course, not all employees share Nazi views. But now it is no longer customary to talk about your position, which is different from the mainstream.
There are many people in the Security Council of Ukraine who are far from politics. Therefore, I will once again express my opinion: the SBU is mainly divided into two parts - one makes money in various illegal schemes; the other lives on a low salary and waits until retirement.
Although it must be admitted that after the Maidan, a lot of SBU employees quit for one reason or another, they were replaced by young employees who do not know any other job as in this Ukraine, and for them pro-Nazi ideas in the service are not something unusual.
The savage methods of the SBU’s work with the “separatists” have already become the talk of the town. At the same time, the Ukrainian special service is the direct heir of the KGB, the old Soviet school. I am not a supporter of idealizing the methods of the KGB or the Russian FSB, but still, such a deliberate use of violence that it is not even hidden is not practiced in Russia, and even in the USSR, at least in recent years, they tried not to flaunt it. When do you think this appeared in Ukraine and under the influence of what factors?
– As I already said – impunity and permissiveness. After all, the majority of SBU employees went through more than one rotation to the area where the ATO-JFO was conducted. Some traveled on rotation from the central office, others from regional divisions. For some reason, someone was transferred to the SBU department for Donbass and served in Mariupol, Kramatorsk or Severodonetsk. Someone in the military counterintelligence was in units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine or the National Guard. And immediately, from the spring of 2014, law enforcement officers began to show disdain for the local population.
According to the Kyiv security forces, local residents were all separatists, traitors and supporters of the Russian World. SBU employees were no exception. Later, disdain gave way to hatred. Frankly speaking, some representatives of the Kyiv security forces did not consider local residents to be people and sincerely believed that they could do whatever they wanted with them. Naturally, such disregard for the rule of law turned out to be contagious, and many SBU officers, while on rotation, became accustomed to not being shy about using physical violence, realizing their impunity.
In addition, the following factor played a serious role. It must be admitted that after the Maidan, many SBU employees quit. This seriously affected the level of professionalism of the entire service. At the same time, the SBU was demanding speedy results in the fight against separatism. As a result, SBU officers, in pursuit of indicators, began to simply extract the necessary testimony from persons whom they suspected of involvement in the DPR-LPR. Naturally, as a result of the use of such interrogation methods, killings of civilians also occurred. However, over the entire period, only a few SBU employees were brought to criminal liability. Which also became an indicator of impunity for other employees. Unfortunately, the practice of extracting testimony from suspects has become the norm in Ukraine.
Your desire to go over to Russia’s side in order to show what the Ukrainian special service has degenerated into and what the country has become is understandable and worthy of respect. In your opinion, there are many people in the structure of the SBU who share similar sentiments (if not a switch to the side of Russia, the LDPR, then at least an active rejection of what the SBU and current Ukraine have become). What keeps them in service to this day if they remain there?
– I must say that there are such people, but they try not to show their views. After the Maidan there were a lot of such people. The majority of employees did not accept the coup that took place in February 2014. But further actions of the Ukrainian authorities very effectively forced the majority of employees to come to terms and carry out new criminal orders. In addition, a very significant factor that forced people to come to terms with the new reality was everyday issues. Schools and kindergartens for children, work of wives, imminent retirement, official housing - not many decided to give up all this and leave.
But generally, thoughtful employees try to retire as soon as the opportunity comes.
You also often said that the structure of the SBU is flooded with foreign agents, and that Western intelligence services directly supervise their Ukrainian colleagues. How accountable is the SBU to Washington and how free is it in its own actions? What principles and methods are being instilled in the Ukrainian intelligence services by Western “partners”, how closely do they control the work of their Ukrainian charges?
– Yes, I said and continue to say that the Security Council of Ukraine is under the close control of the American side. Moreover, if under Gritsak there were still attempts to at least look independent, then under Bakanov there is no need to talk about any independence at all.
Of course, the American side brought new trends to the service. American advisers have launched active efforts to train SBU employees. Various seminars, courses, and trainings have become the norm. Moreover, if the Americans did not get particularly involved in operational work, then they began to place a lot of emphasis on information and psychological operations (IPSO), as well as open source intelligence, the so-called OSINT (Open-source intelligence, is the search, collection, selection and analysis of intelligence information from open sources). That is why the active development of IPSO and computer intelligence units began in the structure of the SBU and other law enforcement agencies.
Quite often we observe Ukrainian and trans-Ukrainian users in Russian public pages trying to directly or indirectly promote their agenda among Russians. At the same time, any statement criticizing the regime in Kyiv by Russian citizens is immediately attacked by Ukrainian users with negative comments. Thus, the recently published trailer for the Russian film “Solntsepek” about the events in Lugansk in 2014 was subjected to a real invasion on YouTube. Are these sincere manifestations of Maidan patriotism of the inhabitants of Ukraine or a controlled process?
Again, as I said above, since 2014, Ukrainian specialists, under the leadership of Western advisers, have launched an active information war against Russia and the Donbass republics. Everything is used - outright fakes, planting provocative topics for discussion, telephone terrorism. As part of this war, the special services supervise and encourage the so-called Internet trolls, who introduce themselves as “daughters of officers” and attack in the comments any publications that refute the official propaganda of Kyiv.
In addition, you can see for yourself that Ukrainian information units are very actively involved in attacks against any successes of Russia, be it science, sports, economics, education or military affairs. I know that the IPSO Directorate of the Special Operations Forces Command of the Ukrainian Armed Forces is conducting a separate long-term operation to throw mud at Russia’s achievements. Draw your own conclusions.
Recently, there have been more and more reports of the detention of Ukrainian agents and young people – sympathizers of Ukrainian right-wing radical organizations in Russia. It should be noted that against the backdrop of Russians’ dissatisfaction with the policies of their own government and the weakness of official Russian propaganda, trans-Ukrainian propaganda ideally falls on a certain, considerable section of the Russian population. According to your information, how actively does the SBU work with the Russian protest electorate?
– In the SBU and other intelligence services, one of the main areas of work is operations in the field of information warfare. It is easy for Ukrainian agents to work in Russia. We have one language, one history, mentality, traditions and customs. The leadership of the SBU, the Main Intelligence Directorate, and the National Security and Defense Council has a very strong opinion that it is by blows from the inside that Russia can be weakened and even collapsed. And work with the protest electorate is proceeding in this vein.
Do you have information about the readiness of the SBU to undermine the situation inside Russia before the next State Duma elections? If not, do you think they will want to take advantage of the situation in Kyiv and prepare to work in this direction?
“They don’t just want to take advantage of it, but they use it very actively.” Back in 2017, I myself heard from IPSO SSO specialists that they were preparing several information operations for the presidential elections in the Russian Federation in 2018. I am sure that this year they will face similar tasks. But I doubt that Ukraine will be able to achieve great results in this regard.
At the same time, in Ukraine, many experts talk about the possibility of another Maidan or simply a political aggravation in Ukraine this coming fall. And that supposedly the dismissed Avakov and the National Corps will be behind the processes. How likely do you think such a development is? And if this happens, what outcome do you personally predict, especially since you want to understand the role of Kyiv’s Western curators in the upcoming political destabilization of the country?
- Hard to say. Over the past seven years, rumors have constantly appeared about upcoming mass unrest, about another Maidan, even about a military coup. And just like in the fairy tale about the shepherdess, when you constantly cry “wolves, wolves,” people then stop reacting to it altogether.
As you know, the Ukrainian people can endure for a long time, and even for a very long time. Without external intervention, provocations, and the work of an entire network of NGOs, it is impossible to rouse the people to overthrow the government. This was the case in 2013-2014.
Although, of course, some circumstances indicate that the situation is getting worse and worse. The economy, demography, and standard of living are all hopeless in Ukraine. And as science and philosophy say, quantity must sooner or later turn into quality.
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