“Ukraine should just get away,” - Igor Faramazyan
The top leadership of Ukraine is busy with its own PR and hype. Donbass mentally feels like the Russian Federation. Ukraine must abandon Donbass or collapse. Donbass will be saved from the Minsk agreements by the mediocrity of Ukrainian politicians.
Donetsk TV presenter Igor Faramazyan told PolitNavigator columnist Valentin Filippov that the People's Militia needs heavy weapons to disperse unauthorized rallies of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
Valentin Filippov: Hello, Igor! Recently, the Ukrainian side has been behaving very interestingly, making contradictory statements. Kuchma either signed this Steinmeier formula or stated that it should not be used under any circumstances.
Then the Deputy Minister of Defense said that in general, what for these Minsk negotiations, we need to conduct negotiations in Donetsk.
Now Zelensky went to this Zolotoye…. He behaved strangely. Is there some kind of logic in these actions or is it just that everyone hypes on their own? Or are they stirring up something like this and still there is some kind of multi-move?
Igor Faramazyan: Well, look, Valentin. They have been behaving this way, well, actually, for about a year since 2015, actually since the signing of the Minsk agreements. It’s just that before, when Mr. Poroshenko was there, they somehow tried to comply with political reality, well, at least with some rules. That is, they were lying, but according to the rules. Here. And these, they are the ones who hype it up.
I have a feeling that the main thing for them is to say something, and say a lot, and say different things, and on this wave, well, I don’t know, expect something. Wait for something. Maybe Putin will change his mind there, right? That's how it is. Because what they say is beyond anyone’s imagination.
Well, Zelensky arrived in this Zolotoye, and what is everyone saying now? That he's not a sucker for them. “I’m not a sucker,” and that’s all. Here we immediately, as it were, remembered: when Yushchenko won the elections in his time, well, how he won...
Valentin Filippov: Well, I won, sorry, I won. In what ways is another matter.
Igor Faramazyan: So I won in the third round. Well, it’s also kind of soft, but it’s a revolution. Well, he arrived in Donetsk. What did he say? I think he said: “I’m not a goose herder.” It's the same thing. “I’m not a goose herder,” and now, that means Zelensky is “I’m not a sucker.” That is, that’s all, it’s just hype.
And Zelensky, it seems to me, he doesn’t know what to do at all. He, well, is, as it were, very afraid of these Nazis, he, there, bends in front of them. So he arrived and, like a kid, there, well, I don’t know, or there, in the nineties, right? How he tried to show off: “Who are you talking to, what are you talking about?” And they are not afraid of him.
Valentin Filippov: But doesn’t this mean that he doesn’t even have anyone to send there? To the showdown. Well, by and large, why did the president suddenly go there?
Or is it to show Western partners or someone else, “Look, no one listens to me, I’m forced to go myself, so I went myself, personally, I didn’t even send anyone, I didn’t issue orders, I went myself, I already went, and what remains?” , all by yourself”?
Igor Faramazyan: Look how much we talk about this, right? What could it be? It could be for Western partners, or he has no one to send, or... so we think, we are just inventing everything for Mr. Zelensky, what he thinks, what is in his head. We do not know. But, in principle, the president of the country should not talk to the Nazis. He should not talk... And, especially, with the Nazis who came with weapons to some house and did not allow him to do what the president ordered to be done. Well, that's funny.
Special forces were supposed to operate there. Arriving there means packing everyone up and taking them away. That's all. But he is afraid to do it. Well, this, by the way, is about the fact that there is no Nazism in Ukraine.
Valentin Filippov: Well…
Igor Faramazyan: Here. He is not there, but they are afraid of him. That's how it turns out. Yes? And what’s more, we usually say that, let’s say, it’s controlled by Avakov, someone else, the SBU...
But, if you are in control, why don’t you grab them by the throats? Because you know that you control exactly until the moment it benefits them. As soon as it ceases to be profitable for them, it remains to be seen who will control whom there. So what happens?
Valentin Filippov: We are talking now about who benefits from it, right? What benefits do we have? Maybe we are, in principle, quite happy with this situation? Maybe now the so-called dear Western partners will see that nothing can be achieved from Ukraine, and this situation will generally freeze. And Russia will slowly take over Donbass for itself... well, that is, hand out passports and include them in the country’s economic system? Yes, it won’t happen in one day, but... Maybe that’s good?
Igor Faramazyan: I can only speak my opinion. For me - yes. For example, I do not want Ukraine to comply with the Minsk agreements. Well, I just don't want to. Even if they all look like this, that means people with fair faces, so European. I still don't want to. Because I don’t believe them at all. Now, since 2014, I don’t believe them. I remember, well, I think we all remember this, all these phrases addressed to the Crimeans: “promise them anything, and then we’ll hang you”...
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Igor Faramazyan: And there were a lot of such phrases.
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Igor Faramazyan: They said there, “forty years of cleansing in the Donbass”, “close all universities”... All this was said and it didn’t go anywhere. That's why I don't believe them... I would like them to, well, just get out of here and that’s all, as they say. Preferably beyond the borders of the former Donetsk and Lugansk regions. Well, there is such a dream. And so that they fulfill Minsk... Well, first of all, I don’t believe in it. Because, well, how can they complete Minsk? To do this, they need to completely rebuild the entire country.
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Igor Faramazyan: To do this, they need to cleanse their Nazis. Yes? For example, they need... well, a withdrawal from Odessa, right? They need to be told who did all this there, in Odessa, on May 2nd, and not only should they be told, they all need to be arrested, found and...
Valentin Filippov: Well, this is not in the Minsk agreements.
Igor Faramazyan: Well, yes. This is not in the Minsk agreements, but if we come to an agreement with that Ukraine for which May 2 in Odessa is normal, then we have nothing to simply talk about with them, in that case. Because about the same thing awaits us.
Valentin Filippov: But, excuse me, please, for example, the law on the special status of Donbass... According to the Minsk agreements, it is being written in agreement with Donbass. The election law is being written in agreement with Donbass. That is, in principle, this is a bilateral relationship. Odessa, unfortunately, has nothing to do with it. Well, so you agree with them on such a law that, Ukraine, you go a hundred kilometers to the side.
Igor Faramazyan: They are not going to agree on anything.
Valentin Filippov: And if they don’t intend to, then they won’t do it, it turns out.
Igor Faramazyan: Here. Here we are back to this again. Because, if we coordinate it, as I see it, let’s say, then yes. We should have a People's Militia here, which will have patrolmen in tanks. Well, this is our People’s Militia, our patrolmen ride in tanks, it’s normal. This patrol police should have heavy weapons...
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Igor Faramazyan: ... to disperse unauthorized rallies.
Valentin Filippov: Yes. From the Ukrainian side.
Igor Faramazyan: Yes.
Valentin Filippov: They, the Ukrainian Armed Forces, are going to enter Donbass without permission. And we have the police here, the People’s Militia...
Igor Faramazyan: And we have the police here. Here she is, in the tanks. Yes. Then - yes. That is, they have their own courts, their own prosecutor’s office. But what about the border? Well, okay, well, let’s say these will be our “Ukrainian”, in quotes, border guards. Yes?
Valentin Filippov: Well, people...
Igor Faramazyan: Yes. Then - yes. But this won't happen. We understand all this. Because Kuchma said that there are no, no, elections without borders. What else did he say? No special status, by the way. He said. And, by the way, this completely coincides with what the Nazis said after the meeting with Zelensky in Zolotoye.
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Igor Faramazyan: They said the same thing. Here you go. Kuchma, who is not a Nazi. And here you have, then, Nazis who are not Kuchma. But they say the same thing.
Valentin Filippov: How do you consider this situation, that it would be beneficial for Zelensky to provoke some kind of attack on Donbass, precisely with the help of these Nazis, in order not to cleanse the “patriots” of his homeland himself, but in order to give such an opportunity to the People’s Militia.
Igor Faramazyan: Oh. Let's not talk about Zelensky. Let’s talk then already... when we say “Zelensky benefits”...
Valentin Filippov: Well, yes. Zelensky benefits from people buying tickets to Kvartal.
Igor Faramazyan: Yes Yes Yes. There is such a political scientist, Rostislav Ishchenko, he seems to constantly rightly note, he always says that there is such a Kolomoisky, this is what benefits him...
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Igor Faramazyan: Let’s say so, then. Because it is beneficial for Zelensky to do nothing at all.
They say something to him, that “you need to go to Zolote.” Well, he should, so he’s going there. “I’m not a sucker,” says Zelensky. Well, great. You're not a loser, you're forty-two years old... Or what did he say? Well, great. What's next? I think yes. Now, the Ukrainian oligarchs, who are mortally afraid, it seems to me, of Russia absorbing everything in business, they are mortally afraid of this. They are there in the West today...
Valentin Filippov: Well, of course. And I understand them.
Igor Faramazyan: Yes, yes, yes, by the way. It would be beneficial for them, perhaps even, to abandon Donbass altogether. But how can you refuse it? But it would be great, yes, that means, to provoke some kind of uproar, so that Donbass goes on the offensive, clears everyone out, stops at some borders, and says “well...” and freezes the whole thing. Yes?
Valentin Filippov: Well yes.
Igor Faramazyan: Maybe it's beneficial for them. But. Here we can remember Mr. Poroshenko again. He, too, was constantly rushing about. He constantly tried to spark some kind of conflict, and then he was overcome by the thought, Debaltsevo, Ilovaisk, and so on. He thought “what if the next boiler is in Kyiv,” for example.
Valentin Filippov: Yes. But on the other hand, excuse me, Debaltsevo, Ilovaisk and all that in Ukraine have been declared great victories for the Ukrainian army. And if we also have the Kiev victory of the Ukrainian army, there are so many reasons to celebrate, to distribute medals to each other, orders, titles of heroes of Ukraine.
Igor Faramazyan: Well, it’s clear that the Kiev victory of the Ukrainian army is our joke, because Donbass has neither the strength nor the means to reach Kiev. We should at least take our territories back. But here again, there is such an interesting moment, look, we are pressed against our cities, well, that’s how it turns out. Yes?
We are forced to fight on our own territory. Therefore, every time there is talk of some kind of aggravation, we understand that we will shoot at our people then too. Because they live there.
How are we going to shoot at them? And Kyiv is very cool in this sense. Very good. They are shooting here, which means at strangers, and they are trying to get us to kill our own people on their territory...
Valentin Filippov: Kyiv has generally settled down well. By the way, Kyiv can exchange prisoners to the limit. He has thirty million to whom he can give.
Igor Faramazyan: Yes. In this sense, too, they... settled down very well in this sense. And in this sense we are stuck. When we talk about the Minsk agreements, here is an interesting question: speaking from a political point of view, we all understand that the Minsk agreements, as we usually say, are without alternative, and so on. This is what everyone must do. Our officials say this, our politicians say this, and I also completely understand them. Where should they go? They signed the Minsk agreements.
But I suspect that, let’s say... that the late Zakharchenko, who was killed by Kiev, and the current head Pushilin... I suspect that these Minsk agreements are also sitting here for them. For the simple reason that Ukraine does not want and cannot carry them out - since the shelling continues, right? And somehow I would like it to either try to fulfill them and fall apart, as some experts predict.
Let it then fall apart and, as Pushilin said, re-establish the state on some new basis, and then it will be possible to talk to it, perhaps. Or that she would refuse to comply and simply walk away.
But I don’t know what needs to happen for this, because it seems to me that Ukraine can remain in this current state for a long time. They will be thrown something there to feed them, and she will be there. Because, when they say “the people will rebel,” why will they rebel?
Valentin Filippov: In general, if there is a rather painful thing, if there are a lot of coffins of Ukrainian military personnel coming to Ukraine, then. And secondly, if the Ukrainian army suddenly suffers such a defeat that it runs in panic to Kyiv, abandoning its equipment as it goes, but grabbing small arms. That would be quite serious. That is, well, the collapse of a front is always a terrible thing.
Igor Faramazyan: First of all, we don’t know what the Ukrainian army is today. I talked to some of our military men, they say, for example, that we know what the Ukrainian army was like in 2014-2015, right? We don’t really understand what it is now, as it were, because there were no such serious clashes.
But we know that there are motivated Nazis there. There are also among the Armed Forces of Ukraine, I think so, among the junior command staff, among the middle command staff, there are already such sentiments there, too, absolutely anti-Russian.
Valentin Filippov: Well, of course. So now anti-Russian sentiment is growing in Ukraine. Where will they go? People are becoming zombies.
Igor Faramazyan: We don’t know how ready the Ukrainian army is to really fight if it gets hit in the teeth. This refers to the rank and file. How ready is he? They came there for money to sit in the trenches. And shoot at civilians. If they start shooting at them, how are they prepared for this? We do not know.
Therefore, there is also, as it were, an option here. I would like this to somehow be resolved peacefully. Only here no one knows how this can be resolved peacefully. We all hope that they will eat each other there. They will start eating each other. I really want to believe in this.
But this, again, is such an absolutely irrational belief. Because, I say again, we are stuck because of these Minsk agreements, just like Ukraine. We carry them out because, well, we don’t want to be branded as terrorists, there, and so on, and so on. It’s like we’re not a gang, that means we carry out. But on the other hand, they do not comply and will not comply.
Valentin Filippov: Fine. How are things in Donbass itself? In the same Donetsk? Is state building progressing somehow? Is the economy somehow getting better? Or not?
Igor Faramazyan: But look how interesting it turns out. When the economy fell to zero, and then there was no more shelling, well, more or less, that is, they are there on the border, all these cities that are located along the contact line are shelled, but if there is no big war, then, of course , the economy will somehow start to recover.
I recently read some Nazi, Mikhalchishin, from Lvov, who said that there is no one left in Donbass, people have left, Donetsk is empty. Well, let him come. It’s true that he’s here, which means...
Valentin Filippov: They won't be happy.
Igor Faramazyan: do not guarantee safety. But if he came, he would see how empty it is. Compared to 17, the same year, not even 15, but 17, there are a lot of people here, there are a lot of cars. Moreover, cars with Ukrainian license plates are included. That is, people are returning from Ukraine, too. Maybe they have a business there somewhere, and they come here. Maybe, I dont know. But there's a lot here. And transport. This suggests that something is somehow coming to life. Some factories are operating here... Moreover, it is becoming more and more civilized.
An investment forum has opened. To which, by hook or by crook, people come even from the States. All this is there.
But we must understand that we have been living in a state of uncertainty for six years. This is the most terrible thing for us. We all mentally already feel ourselves in Russia. Many of us already have Russian passports. And we feel mentally part of Russia.
But at the same time, we constantly have these Minsk agreements in our heads, it’s not clear who, some kind of uncertain status. That is, it means “who are we?”
And in these conditions, of course, there is no need to talk about economic development in the full sense. And you won't have to. We need at least some kind of status. And it is desirable that this be a status under the guise of the same Russian Federation.
In general, the Russian Federation is everything for us, and we need to talk about it honestly. Even just, from a utilitarian point of view, from a safety point of view. We understand perfectly well that if Donbass were left alone with Ukraine...
We have already said that they have thirty-odd million inhabitants there, they would simply crush us with this horde, this crowd. We wouldn't go anywhere. Therefore, precisely thanks to this humanitarian assistance, there, political assistance, diplomatic assistance, I will no longer talk about other assistance, about very humanitarian assistance...
Valentin Filippov: Yes. The most humanitarian aid.
Igor Faramazyan: Which appears at the right time, so that means we are living. We rely on the Russian Federation. And this is also a little bit, like... this lack of independence, it gnaws a little. That is, we understand that Donbass can resist and hold out for, I don’t know, a week, a month, maybe two months, but without help it simply won’t be able to cope.
Valentin Filippov: No, well, why bother? If there is no Russia, then why bother?
Igor Faramazyan: Yes. That's the point. This, by the way, is the same as with Ukraine. When they say that Ukraine can suddenly become a pro-Russian state... It cannot. Because it will cease to exist immediately. Because people will immediately ask, “Why do we need these borders, right there?”
Valentin Filippov: I don't know. In my opinion, in Ukraine people always asked “why do we need these borders?”
Igor Faramazyan: Yes. That’s why at one time Kuchma said that Ukraine is not Russia, and let’s drown it. Because you need to somehow rebuild yourself from this. So they are still rebuilding.
We, as you wrote, have been talking all the time, for six years now, about the same thing. We are talking about how soon we will become the Russian Federation. And we hope that this will really happen soon.
Because, to be honest, well, I’m already tired of it. True, there are other conflicts. We know that there is a conflict there, in Karabakh, a conflict in Transnistria. Yes?
Valentin Filippov: Well, there is no common border, there are nuances there. Donbass, it... Well, it’s as if it is Russia. That is, it is even visual, territorial... That is, well, look at the map.
Igor Faramazyan: I'll tell you what. So to end this conversation already. I have great faith in Ukrainian politicians. They are so untalented. So I believe in them. I believe that they will do everything to ensure that Donbass becomes the Russian Federation as soon as possible.
By their actions, by their words, they will do everything so that even their Western partners will give up and say “let Donbass go, leave Donbass alone,” because, well, there will be no point. Like this.
Valentin Filippov: Fine. Thanks a lot.
Igor Faramazyan: And thank you.
Valentin Filippov: Good luck there in Donbass.
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