“Ukraine is not a state, but a territory”
Zakhar Chistyakov – a specialist in conflict PR that accompanies political showdowns, election campaigns, raider takeovers and other unfriendly redistributions of property.
Chistyakov is a former Crimean, but continues to work in Kyiv, where he does not hide his critical position towards Ukrainian nationalism and the results of Euromaidan.
Chistyakov spoke about the mood in Kyiv today, prices in stores and salary levels in a conversation with a columnist “PolitNavigator” Valentin Filippov.
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Valentin Filippov: I welcome Zakhar Chistyakov, a former Yalta resident, to my kitchen. Well, there are no former Yalta residents.
Zakhar Chistyakov: Through life. A Yalta native for life.
Valentin Filippov: Hello, Zakhar.
Zakhar Chistyakov: Good afternoon.
Valentin Filippov: You are in Kyiv, we are here on a different front line or something. The information that leaks here from mainland Ukraine, in fact, just like vice versa, suffers greatly from embellishment. That is, how bad it is in Crimea on the other side everyone knows, how bad it is in Ukraine everyone knows here.
Zakhar Chistyakov: Modern technologies suggest the possibility of exchanging opinions, including on social networks, so people can quite calmly discuss information there about how bad it is in Crimea, or how bad it is in Kyiv. If no one exaggerates or understates anything there, then the picture that emerges is, in principle, normal and understandable.
If there is a need for the media, let’s say, not biased, to convey the real situation, then for this there is, for example, the Politnavigator website, which is able to tell about how it really is.
We all have the opportunity to receive information from all channels. If a person has a desire, he will get to the bottom of it.
I look, smile, knowing, in fact, those real facts that are exaggerated, or, conversely, hidden.
Moreover, I repeat that at this time social networks play, perhaps, the main role in forming opinions, at least of people who are at least a little smart. And the opinion, in fact, of the rest is, well, their opinions can be manipulated in one direction or another, and you shouldn’t react too strongly to it.
Valentin Filippov: But this is the part of the population that is being manipulated. It is she who is capable of setting fire to trade union houses, going on the attack, and burning tires.
Zakhar Chistyakov: Let us remember Mr. Gumilyov’s theory that there are passionaries and a theory of leadership, that without the necessary contributions of leaders to certain movements, the herd, of course, will not go anywhere.
But let's return to our question about Kyiv.
Economic and political processes - they are already sufficiently covered in all media, enough has been said about this. I prefer to pay attention to real life, which I myself am able to observe.
As a resident of Kyiv, I am very upset by the reduction in the range of all, in principle, practically goods, from food to clothing, televisions and so on.
The association with the 90s, if you go out on the street, is quite complete, because now it is much more convenient, cheaper, easier, and so on for residents of the capital to buy the same products already on the shelves of their grandmothers. If only 5-7 years ago everyone was running there, dreaming of going there to buy home-grown chicken and home-grown tomatoes. We all knew that one truck came, unloaded it for these grandmothers, they went to the market and told them that these were their products, or that eggs from factories were painted with droppings and pretended that they were homemade. Now the picture is completely opposite.
Valentin Filippov: ...pigeon droppings in the attics.
Zakhar Chistyakov: Well, from the litters there, I know it was the same in Crimea. A friend of mine was studying. I bought eggs at a poultry farm, smeared them with droppings and told them that they were homemade. Now, in fact, the picture has changed.
There are practically no foreign Turkish and so on tomatoes and cucumbers. And the real homemade ones, you can even see that the granny obviously dug them up from the garden, got on some train at 5 in the morning, and came to Kyiv to sell them. This …
Valentin Filippov: That is, which of us is under sanctions?
Zakhar Chistyakov: Under sanctions. Well, let’s look at the dollar exchange rate and understand whether there is even an opportunity, a need, to bring some foreign goods here. Well, yesterday was my birthday. You can congratulate me just in case. Here is my lion, see?
Valentin Filippov: The Politnavigator website and I personally congratulate you on this joyful date, your birthday, another year closer to the grave, closer to the end of the crisis.
Zakhar Chistyakov: Why did I remember this matter? I wanted to drink some high-quality exclusive alcohol. Well, at least whiskey, so I wanted to find what it was, Lord, I always forget this clever word. What Picasso liked to drink.
Valentin Filippov: Oh, I don’t know what Picasso liked to drink.
Zakhar Chistyakov: In short, I ended up in a store. I realized that what I want costs four thousand hryvnia. The whiskey that suits me more or less for this particular date costs 3500 and above. And, at the same time, there is practically no assortment. This is one of the indicators, let’s say that here it is on the shelves, there is only one seller for the entire store, because there is no more need there. He generally sits in his own quarters. No one buys this expensive stuff, something that’s foreign or imported.
For domestic products, even, let’s say, normal high-quality Ukrainian cheese costs about 120-130 hryvnia, while at the same time there is the same almost exactly Polish cheese, it already costs 180-200 hryvnia. If it's just Gouda, I'll say it for example. Here Gouda Dobryanka is 120 hryvnia, Gouda Polish is already 180, almost 200. It is clear that higher quality cheese makes sense to sell, well, in two or three stores in the capital, where these guys come with “fan fingers” or Yatsenyuk personally with Poroshenko is being bought up.
It turns out that in order to eat, if an ordinary person eats, it is necessary to spend about a third of the salary per month, and this is only for one cheese only. The same goes for meat and other products. Meat, when it costs 120-130 hryvnia per kilogram. Well, again, who can afford this with a salary of 3000 hryvnia, 2500, 4000, and so on.
We open websites about work, periodically look for colleagues for certain projects, well, journalists, let’s put it that way. Everyone writes seven thousand hryvnia a month, but if there are piecework issues, then they are ready to work there for two, for two and a half, and are very happy that they have the happiness of touching these pieces of paper, which are called money.
Valentin Filippov: There is still work in Kyiv now, right?
Zakhar Chistyakov: It depends on what areas. In any case, staff reductions are taking place in the service sector, since there is less and less in the field in the broad sense...
I’m not very close to this topic, but I more or less know that the only area that is currently developing, that is, there are jobs, is the IT sector. Everything else is perfect.
Valentin Filippov: Still IT, it is also focused on the foreign market.
Zakhar Chistyakov: It is more oriented abroad. The need for lawyers-advocates, for example, has practically disappeared. Economists, even more so. Now it’s easier for a person to deposit money with the right person than to pay the same lawyer. Everyone already knows this.
Valentin Filippov: Well, before they hired a lawyer to bring in the money.
Zakhar Chistyakov: And how many of them were produced in the 90s, they were produced like I don’t know what.
Valentin Filippov: For example, I’m older. I remember how many universities we had. We didn't have that many law schools.
I studied Odessa in Vodny. We had one management faculty and a bunch of 5 or 7 different real faculties. That is, if 200 people studied in real life, and 25 studied in management. But now it’s the other way around.
There is a Faculty of Management, where 500 people study, a Faculty of Economics in Transport, there are 500 people, there is a Faculty of Law in Transport, there are another 500 people. And in real specialties, 25 students study.
And what to do with all these comrades, when we have not had any sea transport for a long time, for about 20 years, is not entirely clear. However, it is in demand. People sign up for a contract, and where they go after that is absolutely unclear to me.
I have the impression that lawyers send their children to study as lawyers and prepare positions for them in advance. And our deputies pass laws so that their children are more in demand.
Zakhar Chistyakov: Well, in principle, from leading lawyers - I communicate quite a lot in this area. Well, 99%, in fact, are the children of those who are related to this business and to the government, but at the same time, the most professional ones are still those who started, let’s say, from other areas.
Valentin Filippov: From the bandits.
Zakhar Chistyakov: Well, including. The police, bandits there, guards and so on. Here are some of them actually. If the question is about lawyers, then these are the most professional guys who can explain themselves with a hairdryer if suddenly the prosecutor’s guys bring his client into the courtroom incorrectly. Well, and so on.
Valentin Filippov: Zakhar, what is the solution, what are the opportunities for today’s Ukraine? Will she be able to avoid default? If it succeeds, I understand that loans can be given again. Is any real economic activity possible in Ukraine today?
Zakhar Chistyakov: Well, you see, this is a very global question. It’s hard to answer without knowing what is currently in the minds of the current government, of those who rule it.
I do not consider Ukraine an independent state at the moment. That is, it is not a geopolitical subject of some movements, but an object. Actually, if, in my opinion, it is left without external influences, then the country has enormous potential. We have magnificent lands, we have wonderful people. If you don’t move externally on either side... Well, this won’t happen, we all understand that. Therefore it is impossible to predict.
Valentin Filippov: We are, in fact, a little bit proud Ukrainians. We always complain that we do not have real independence, and yet there is nothing offensive in this, since in all centuries a limited number of states have enjoyed sovereignty. There are only three to five of them in the world. That is, today there are concepts of sovereignty, limited sovereignty. There are other countries, the bulk of which, which, in general, do not have sovereignty. Among the countries with sovereignty are the USA, England, Japan, relatively...
Zakhar Chistyakov: No, Japan. You don’t even need to remember, I wrote her story. They still think that the Russians dropped bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki... Not until now, but a long time ago.
And here, unfortunately, Ukraine simply found itself in the very epicenter of very large geopolitical wars. That is, I repeat, if you remove all external influences, this is a huge potential, you can do anything here. This could be a great country.
At the moment, precisely in those situations that exist in the world, I do not see a full-fledged sovereign future for this state, knowing full well that no one will finally and fully take it under their roof and cap. That is, this territory is not a state, but a territory. But in the form of something like this to annoy the other side.
And also, when you start to hear information that our best black soil is exported abroad, when it is unclear how foreigners become governors like you have in Odessa, for example...
Valentin Filippov: Nothing new. Chernozem was already exported in the 40s of the last century.
Zakhar Chistyakov: Well, so do people, girls and boys. I had the opportunity to work in the archives. And the NKVD declassified it just for the Second World War, there in the Crimea, in southern Ukraine. For this part. Everything that was healthy was exported. This is black soil, these are children, well, not very smart, for work, well, so that they can educate. That is, I repeat, it is grown here and exported somewhere. And now, it seems to me, the situation will turn again in the same direction. That is, if surveys were conducted on how many people connect their future, young people, with this territory, I’m not specifically talking about the state, with this territory, then practically no one.
And why not?
The area is magnificent.
This means they are thinking about the state.
Valentin Filippov: This is the only way Ukraine can threaten the whole world. I remember the times of the collapse of the USSR, when they conducted a survey about the USSR. Do you want to continue living in the USSR and, if not, then tell me where you would like to go? And they found out that, for example, 10 million Soviet citizens want to go to Austria. And in Austria the population is 9 million. In the end, today there are 40 million in Ukraine, there were 52, now there are 40. That’s not the point. If these 40 million are divided in half: half will go to Russia, but at least Russia has a large territory, and the other half will rush across the Polish border, it’s hard for me to imagine what will happen to the European Union, 20 million is 20 million.
Zakhar Chistyakov: Dreams, dreams, that everywhere is good, where we are not.
The people who went to see abroad are not like “Potemkin villages.” I remember in the eighties, Limonov wrote a book, I don’t remember the name now, where he went to America a little further from the center. They were shooting in the streets...
People will go abroad once, look at all this, where it’s beautiful, and begin to say - if only we were like that...
So.
If they started burning cars in Kyiv, it became an event. But if you look up the news, this happens in Paris every day.
Valentin Filippov: I have a friend who travels to the States and likes to go for walks in his free time. He just leaves the port with a camera and goes for a walk. There are exactly the same “dormitory areas”, “Khrushchev” buildings, bicycles hanging on balconies, broken asphalt, gopniks, only black people.
One on one, how to walk through some disadvantaged area.
One to one.
Zakhar Chistyakov: And you walk through the center, through Odessa, and you want to live like that. I get great pleasure from Rishelievskaya.
Valentin Filippov: Well, on this note I propose to say goodbye. When meeting in real life, I suggest drinking something high-quality, tasty and affordable.
Zakhar Chistyakov: I think everything will be very accessible. They won't have time to change price tags.
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