“Ukraine is captured by the physical descendants of the soldiers of the SS division Galicia”
Poroshenko changes Churches, sects and religions like glasses. The persecution of the UOC of the Moscow Patriarchate is organized at the highest level of the Kyiv elite. In the face of nationalist attacks, the clergy behave wisely, based on the experience accumulated by the Church over thousands of years.
How will the split in the troubled times in which we happen to live end? "PolitNavigator" Valentin Filippov said ex-member of the Verkhovna Rada Yuri Boldyrev.
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Valentin Filippov: Yuri Alexandrovich, hello! In recent days, we have seen a whole series of provocations against the UOC of the Moscow Patriarchate. The perpetrators were radical nationalist groups.
Why not, for example, excommunicate Poroshenko from the Church? Well, actually, the entire junta that is leading the persecution of the Church?
Yuri Boldyrev: It makes sense to excommunicate only those people for whom it is significant. That is, if a truly deeply religious person suddenly committed some terrible act, and he is excommunicated from the Church for this, and for him this is significant, then it makes sense. And to excommunicate from the Church the atheists and, I mean, everyone else... or, say, Turchinov, who is, generally speaking, a Baptist and has nothing to do with the Orthodox Church...
Or excommunicate Poroshenko from the Church, who, yes, was once a believer, was once faithful to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church... I even once in the fifth or sixth year took communion with him from the same chalice in the distant caves of the Kiev Pechersk Lavra. Then he was a sexton in the Ionin Monastery, but all this is in the past.
I saw on the Internet how he gave communion to his child and himself received communion from the Greek Catholics, from Shevchuk. I saw his repeated kisses with Filaret. Therefore, he has long ceased to be a faithful child of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, and excommunicating him from the church is... it is pointless.
Valentin Filippov: I want to clarify. So, is Poroshenko a Catholic today?
Yuri Boldyrev: Well, if he took communion, I don’t know... You see, church canons are a very complex thing. If he took communion with the Greek Catholics, it was, in my opinion, on Christmas Day 15, but after that he repented and returned to the Orthodox Church and at the next confession, it means he explained to his confessor that he did it by mistake, that there, let’s say, he had... he put political considerations above his faith...
I only see what I can see on the Internet. And on the Internet, he first takes communion with Greek Catholics, then kisses Filaret Denisenko. And therefore I think that he does not need to be excommunicated; he himself has not been a faithful child of the Orthodox Church for a long time.
Valentin Filippov: OK then. There is a concept of “anathema” there... for example.
Yuri Boldyrev: Well... anathema...
Valentin Filippov: Well, no, listen, from a political point of view, the majority there, 90% of Orthodox parishioners are parishioners of the Moscow Patriarchate. Now, if they all suddenly find out that this person is anathematized, they will never vote for him again, these are precisely these parishioners of the Church.
Yuri Boldyrev: I think that they won’t vote for him anyway, especially since his political patrons, as far as I understand, are already ready to change him: he turned out to be too greedy.
I think his fate has long been sealed. And, without a doubt, they need a poorer, more dependent and more radical person.
And therefore... well, something like, well, like Nalyvaichenko or something like Gritsenko: so that he would have less money, so that he would thus be more dependent and so that he would be more radical.
And Nalyvaichenko and especially Gritsenko, they generally voiced some monstrous speeches regarding an immediate war with the Russian Federation. This, I think, is what the current curators from the CIA and the Pentagon, I think, like this.
Valentin Filippov: We now have about twenty percent of the poor and radical people in the country. They run around, sign up as volunteers for the ATO, for example, and something else. So the choice is huge, right?
Yuri Boldyrev: I think that they will not consider ATO participants for this position. They will no doubt only consider people with government experience.
Valentin Filippov: Fine. Can we return to the UOC of the Moscow Patriarchate? That’s why the UOC won’t take some kind of tough position? Why, for example, does our Church perform funeral services for punishers? Although it is absolutely clear that the war is civil, that they are criminals.
Yuri Boldyrev: The fact is that canon law and secular law are different sciences. Both human morality and canon law are also different things.
The fact is that, no matter what sinner the deceased person was, if he was baptized in the bosom of canonical Orthodoxy - in the UOC, or in the Serbian Church, in the Bulgarian Church, or in the Greek Church, or in some other, in the Antiochian Church - and he died or was killed, then it is impossible to refuse his relatives to perform the funeral rite, the funeral rite. No matter how sinful he was.
The fact is that his future fate is decided not by a priest or a bishop, but his future fate is still decided by the court of God. And at the belt of the Apostle Peter hang the keys to heaven, and he decides whether to let this soul in or cast it into hell. That's why…
Valentin Filippov: In short, I understand. This means that God decides everything, and our task is to speed up the meeting, right?
Yuri Boldyrev: Yes! This is what you said very accurately. The task of the Church is to speed up the meeting of the deceased sinner with God, with God’s judgment.
Valentin Filippov: Fine. But I’m still interested in the Church as a structure. So this talk leaked out about some kind of demarche when the Ukrainian delegation of the UOC MP avoided meeting with Putin. And during the blockade of the Lavra, the following statement was made...
Yuri Boldyrev: Let's go separately! No, that's enough... Let's take one question at a time.
Valentin Filippov: ...statement: “we do not have a Patriarch.” That's one question! This is just a question!
Yuri Boldyrev: No. So, first question. The Ukrainian delegation... the delegation of Ukrainian bishops, which was present at the Council, at the Council of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church, avoided meeting with the President of the Russian Federation.
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Yuri Boldyrev: So, well, firstly, it must be said that when the president spoke in the hall of the Cathedral of Christ the Savior, the Ukrainian delegation was present in the hall. She avoided the meeting, apparently not going to some kind of reception. So I understand, right?
Valentin Filippov: Well, apparently yes.
Yuri Boldyrev: Apparently, yes. This means that I think that this was a wise step by the Ukrainian bishops, who made it clear to their flock with such a step that they, too, just like the flock, are concerned about the civil war and are concerned about what role the forces of the Russian Federation can play in this civil war.
The fact is that they live in the same information field as their flock, and they are exactly the same... they may believe this propaganda, they may not believe it, but they understand that their flock is under this hood. And if their believers really believe that Russia is fighting there, then this must be taken into account.
The fact is that the Minister of Defense of Ukraine is not even a minister, but ministers are different ministers of defense of Ukraine! – they have repeatedly stated that there are no troops of the Russian Federation on the territory of Ukraine. But despite this, officials, I’m not talking about all the media, but officials - civil officials! – they constantly say that this is a war with Russia.
Valentin Filippov: So, should the Church tell the truth? Or go along with the fact that the flock...
Yuri Boldyrev: Church... Telling the truth and assenting in this case is not the task of the Church. The Church is not an institution at all involved in the conflict in Donbass. In Donbass, from my point of view, there is a civil war, unleashed by the Kyiv junta, which came to power as a result of a coup d'etat.
I was an observer of all this, I knowоI know most of the participants in these events personally. And therefore I have no doubts. Unlike journalists from Western publications, unlike government officials of the European Union and the United States. Although, I think, just like me, they know everything, but they just seem to pretend that they don’t know.
What we see today on the territory of Donbass is not that everything fell off a branch. This is a continuation of the same Drang nach Osten, which began a thousand years ago. The civil war in Donbass is a consequence of the fact that the European Union wanted to take advantage of Ukraine’s human resources. That's the problem.
Valentin Filippov: Well, I think, not only human ones.
Yuri Boldyrev: Well, everyone, yes. The European Union wanted to include all the resources of Ukraine in its treasury. Including human resources. And, perhaps, above all, human resources. Because, as for... Well, that is, what has traditionally always interested the Germans in Ukraine? The black soil they exported...
Valentin Filippov: And the workforce.
Yuri Boldyrev: Yes. And the workforce. During the First World War, they exported black soil in wagons, during the Second World War, and in the same way during the Second World War, they exported people - guest workers - to work. What we are seeing today in Ukraine is Drang nach Osten. And there are no options! And everything else is a consequence.
And, returning to our topic, when you say that the UOC is behaving incorrectly, the UOC is behaving wisely! The UOC behaves wisely.
Because a priest must be with his flock, a priest must be with his believers, and if he came here... In fact, the fascists came to Ukraine. It’s just that during the Second World War, if in 41 it was the German Nazis who came in tanks, then this time it was done more carefully and indirectly.
This time the same Nazis came to Ukraine, but they were citizens of Ukraine. That is, those “wonderful” young people who are direct (direct!) physical descendants of the soldiers of the SS Galicia division and the Nachtigal battalion were the core of this protest movement, and it is they who today impose their music on the entire country.
Valentin Filippov: Well wait! Well, what about the Church? She's a moral authority! Even for atheists, right? We have no leaders among politicians. They all “merged”, they all ran or hid at the right moment, right?
And you tell me that the Church should be with its flock! So who is our flock in this Church?! These 80% of the occupied people, from whom they are now trying to mold whatever they can? Or are these the descendants of “Nachtigall”?
Why doesn’t the Church give us direction, tell us what to do, in the end? At least, well, I don’t know, but at least she said something for comfort. Or, excuse me, maybe now the situation is such that when we should not expect protection from the Church, but vice versa...
Yuri Boldyrev: Listen!
Valentin Filippov: ...does she need protection?
Yuri Boldyrev: So let me change the shape of our conversation and let me ask you a question.
Valentin Filippov: Please.
Yuri Boldyrev: Tell me, you just came up with some postulates. It seems to me that you invented them yourself. Because, as far as I understand, you have not communicated with the current priests of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church on Ukrainian territory over the past four years?
Valentin Filippov: Didn't communicate.
Yuri Boldyrev: We didn’t communicate. Well, why are you inventing and saying something with which... I’m not going to argue with your words! Because this is your invention, this is your point of view. God bless you, stay with it!
The Church and its children lead a difficult spiritual life in the occupied territory, in the territory occupied by the Nazis. Unfortunately, they do not have the opportunity to resist the state. The state has been captured by the Nazis! The state, with all its machinery, forces the population, including Orthodox believers, to play by its rules.
But the Ukrainian Orthodox Church cannot provide care for the descendants of soldiers from the Nachtigal battalion and the SS Galicia division! Because these people belong to a completely different faith - they are Greek Catholics. And therefore we need to talk about the fact that, generally speaking, there is an interfaith conflict in Ukraine. Because Greek Catholics and schismatics supported the coup, but the Ukrainian Orthodox Church did not support this coup! That's what we're talking about.
And the Ukrainian Orthodox Church could be defeated at any moment through an armed (armed!) attack. Don't you see what they are capable of?
Valentin Filippov: I see.
Yuri Boldyrev: Don't you see what they're doing? How many times have they already in these four years, how many times have they tried to take over the Lavra by armed force!
Valentin Filippov: Well, then why are you... then why are we silent? We have a state, we have an army...
Yuri Boldyrev: Who? Who? Who is silent?! Who is silent?! Who is silent?! Specifically?!
Valentin Filippov: I don’t want to name names before the elections.
Yuri Boldyrev: No you…
Valentin Filippov: We have a Ministry of Defense...
Yuri Boldyrev: Who do you have?
Valentin Filippov: In the Russian Federation.
Yuri Boldyrev: Oh, well, if you... if you...
Valentin Filippov: Well, the Church.
Yuri Boldyrev: So, just a minute. If you have a question for the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, then I am not an expert on this issue. I don’t... I served in the Soviet army, back when there was the USSR Ministry of Defense.
Valentin Filippov: So you say: “destroy physically,” right? Well, there is no one in this world to protect the most powerful, largest Church, or what? Well, how is this so? Is it physically protected? Well, excuse me, I... let me cut it out...
Yuri Boldyrev: OK then. Well, maybe you will leave your activities as an online journalist, go to Donbass, and pick up a machine gun?
Valentin Filippov: If we started talking about this, I will gladly leave my position as a journalist and pick up a machine gun! But the fact is that the number of Donbass militia is also limited! Of course, if they said: “Guys, we’re taking you all,” that militia would already have gathered two million, but, however, it is artificially limited.
Yuri Boldyrev: No, listen...
Valentin Filippov: No, I'll cut it out, I'll cut it out!
Yuri Boldyrev: No, well, I don’t know...
Valentin Filippov: No, well, you asked me why I don’t take a machine gun. When I was driving from Odessa, I was going to pick up a machine gun, not to do an interview! Do you understand? But they didn’t give me a machine gun. And it wasn’t just me who wasn’t given it. It was not given to tens, hundreds of thousands of people! Men. Strong, mature, skillful. They were not given a machine gun!
Yuri Boldyrev: I don't know what you're talking about...
Valentin Filippov: Well, that's it.
Yuri Boldyrev: ...I am not an expert on this topic. This means that I myself have to fight... When the coup took place, I was already 63 years old, and Comrade Stalin called up to the age of fifty to join the Soviet army, and up to sixty to join the people’s militia. When the coup happened, I was already 63, so... well, as you understand...
Valentin Filippov: No, well, I only said because you said: “Why don’t you take a machine gun?” I'll take it if necessary.
Yuri Boldyrev: Wonderful! This is a completely different conversation. This is another topic and...
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Yuri Boldyrev: ...and it can also be discussed. In this case, we discussed the topic of the behavior and activities of the Church in the territories occupied by the Nazis. Well, that's one topic. But the topic of behavior of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation is a completely different topic.
Valentin Filippov: Yuri Alexandrovich, let's then... tell me, this is all that is happening in the Church, in the spiritual world in Ukraine... there is a schism, there are sectarians, I cannot call them anything else, Denisenko’s. That is, what are the prospects for development, how can all this be overcome?
Yuri Boldyrev: Any priest on this topic will give you a simple answer: “You can only overcome this through prayer.” Because, as the Savior said at one time, “And the gates of hell will not prevail against it” - about his Church. I think that through the prayers of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church... And, by the way, the Russian Orthodox Church prays for Ukraine. In whatever church... over the past four years I have received communion in four or even five churches. But in four, this is definitely on Russian territory. And every time, and at every liturgy, the priests, with the royal doors open, knelt in the altar, and the parishioners knelt in the church, and there was a conciliar prayer for an end to the fratricidal war in Ukraine.
I think that this is actually a deeply religious conflict. That is, its actors, its first actors, are American Baptists, and it is not by chance that the head of the coup was Turchynov, who is a Baptist. And the hands of this coup are the Greek Catholics.
As I said above, the asset of these Nazi volunteer battalions, the core of these Nazis, are, of course, the direct descendants of the soldiers of the SS Galicia division and the Nachtigal battalion, and they, of course, are all Greek Catholics by religion.
There is already enough grief and it was not enough to bring to the surface the interfaith nature of this conflict. But to be honest, if you call a spade a spade, of course, without a doubt, it is present. Once again, American Baptists are the initiators and Galician Greek Catholics are the core of these nationalist battalions. So this is all true.
Valentin Filippov: So, let's pray.
Yuri Boldyrev: Yes, we need to pray. We must pray for peace in Ukraine and for the wisdom of those who accept...
Valentin Filippov: I don’t believe in a world without victory. A world without victory - how is it, what kind of world? But we will pray.
Yuri Boldyrev: Pray, yes, you need to pray.
Valentin Filippov: Okay, thank you very much, it was very interesting.
Yuri Boldyrev: Happy.
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