“The enemy must understand that he is a guest in Odessa”
Dmitry Odinov - head of the Odessa Druzhina, which entered into battle with the Nazis on May 2, 2014 on Greek Square. It was there that several hundred Odessa residents held back for five hours a crowd of thousands brought to Odessa to intimidate the city. In the end, hundreds of Maidan protesters left the square, going to the House of Trade Unions on Kulikovo Field, where the most terrible events of May 2 took place.
Dmitry Odinov told the observer about how events developed on the eve of the loudest tragedy in Odessa in the last 70 years "PolitNavigator" to Valentin Filippov.
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Valentin Filippov: Hello Dmitry. What do you think about the latest movements with the renaming of streets in Odessa, with speeches by deputies with signs “I speak Russian”? What's this? Trukhanov's rebellion, Trukhanov's blackmail, or attempts to please the population of Odessa again? To once again win the sympathy of the defender of Russian Odessa?
Dmitry Odinov: Trukhanov is a very pragmatic person. He knows very well the real mood in the city. He understands that this city is Russian. And he understands that this topic can be exploited indefinitely if it is presented correctly.
Maybe he wants to present himself as a fighter against this rotten regime.
Valentin Filippov: Is the regime rotten?
Dmitry Odinov: Well, rotten is putting it mildly. It seems to me that in terms of efficiency, it has never been particularly stable. But now it's just starting to fall apart.
But that's not the point. Even in this half-life state, it can rot for a very long time. Considering that the financial and industrial groups that stand behind all these characters, both “opposition” and ultra-Bandera, they have a good margin of stability. Considering that all financial resources are accumulated in their hands.
Therefore, people who live in Odessa can live on absolutely miserable money, or on some kind of food cards, but these guys will feel good. And they will talk on TV about the next insidious machinations of external enemies.
But, returning to the topic of Trukhanov’s “uprising,” everything here is extremely simple. As you and I know, literally a few days later, in a conversation with Avakov, Gennady Leonidovich “turned on the back foot”, vetoed the decision of the City Council, and with this the “uprising” seemed to end.
Valentin Filippov: Well, sympathy has been won.
Dmitry Odinov: Yes, sure. Simple, uncomplicated games that bring profit, as they like to say. Everything goes according to plan. But do Odessa residents like this plan? Is this what they wanted? That's another question.
But, unfortunately, Odessa residents do not have to choose. They have no choice from ten Trukhanovs, of varying degrees of talent and political views. There is outright Bandera crap, and there is Gennady Leonidovich, who creates the impression of a more or less adequate person. They choose the lesser of two evils, so I perfectly understand Odessa residents who, indeed, vote for Trukhanov.
Valentin Filippov: But I don’t understand anything else, if we go back three years, right? Here in Kyiv the government collapsed. Why didn’t the same Trukhanov, the same Kivalov, take advantage of the Russian Spring, grab for himself this tidbit called Odessa?
Why didn't you support it then? Why did the elites betray so vilely?
Dmitry Odinov: The Odessa elites, in my deep conviction, are not independent people. This applies to different scales of people, but nevertheless. And they were guided, perhaps, by the position of the Kremlin. Including unofficial ones. When it was not entirely clear in which direction the pendulum would swing, some part of Odessa politics seriously considered the option of more openly supporting anti-Maidan and actively participating in this process. You and I understood that they sat on the sidelines and watched which bear would win.
Valentin Filippov: And they put the eggs in different baskets.
Dmitry Odinov: Certainly. And when they realized that there was a clear logic of action on the part of Ukraine, that is, they defended their own, and they killed their opponents. They clearly stated their goals and objectives. And they achieved them brazenly, harshly, uncompromisingly.
What happened on the part of the pro-Russian forces? Half-heartedness, understatement, complete lack of coordination with the ruling elites. And the lack of real support from Moscow. Let's call a spade a spade.
Valentin Filippov: These tapes that the SBU is releasing, are they completely fabricated or are they partially fabricated? Because Glazyev himself gave some orders. He made some promises. He advised who and how best to attack. What to capture. Well, everyone has heard these recordings. The voices there are painfully familiar.
Dmitry Odinov: Undoubtedly. But you and I understand that the status of those people who discussed this is just an adviser to the president. No more and no less. Moreover, that form of assistance is purely advisory, in words... This is not the format of participation that was needed at that particular moment.
Because there was a clearly calibrated, planned activity on the part of the pro-Western forces. With clear, responsible people. With budgets. With some logic of action. With controlled media plans in the media. That is, it was a well-planned special operation.
And on the part of the pro-Russian forces it was spontaneous, on the knees, by the forces of amateurs, and in many ways it was their personal initiative. Considering that there was really no coordination. In real. As a person who, unfortunately, observed all these moments, I speak.
Therefore, the result was natural. When a well-oiled machine collides on one side and such a makeshift partisanship on the other, there was no hope for victory. But, you have a question, why did this handicraft arise?
Valentin Filippov: In general, I was just wondering, so they called and said: “Guys, come on, we are with you.” And then they’re like, “Oh, you’re in the wrong place.”
Dmitry Odinov: That's the point. Well, take any European organizations. Pro-Western. They trained their field commanders, activists, some crowds of journalists, they trained them for decades. Some camps near Lvov. Some Kiev-Mohyla academies. And countless grants were allocated.
Therefore, when 2013 came, they had personnel and people who knew what to do, who knew how to act in extreme situations, to work with large masses. They had established channels both in the media and in some kind of politics, albeit regional.
Valentin Filippov: Yes, I remember how they blocked all the media for us. How all means of communication disappeared. The Maidan has not yet won, but they have already blocked us. Forums and blogosphere were closed. Everything was blocked.
Dmitry Odinov: So, to prevent this from happening, so that we can’t be cut off abruptly, the opposite side needs to do at least 10% of the same things. In deeds, not in words. That is, to cultivate your own politicians, acquire your own media, acquire your own behind-the-scenes methods of influence. Acquire compromising evidence on some Ukrainian characters. That is, it had to be done systematically, long, painstakingly. Was it done?
Valentin Filippov: No.
Dmitry Odinov: Not at all. You and I understand this. And when they announce to us here: “You, the leaders of Kulikovo Field, did not form a popular uprising” or did not do something. We are ordinary people. We came, essentially, from the streets. And why did we lead? – Yes, because there were no others at that moment. Why wasn't it? – Because no one was looking into this issue. Therefore, there was handicraft. It was amateurism. And, “made it out of what was,” as they say. I won't say whether this is good or bad, but it doesn't have to be that way. This is absolutely guaranteed, definitely.
Valentin Filippov: Listen, let’s take a time machine and go back three years ago, the morning of May 2, 2014. Would you still go?
Dmitry Odinov: May 2 was a very bad date. In terms of choosing the place and time for the attack. It was stupid. Like a commander who leads his soldiers on a deliberately failed operation, where he understands that he will not win, but will only destroy his forces, this was purely such a case.
I was categorically against this outing with both hands. Because I understood that it was clearly not ordinary old men in embroidered shirts who would be visiting the city. Several thousand well-trained militants come in and are behind them. These are not just street hooligans, there are special services there, some veterans, there were quite a lot of motivated military men. All this is quite a serious force.
On our side there was a more semi-partisan, not very well organized crowd of people who, of course, heroically resisted, but were inferior in terms of quantity and quality of combat coordination.
In my deep conviction, if we were already going to fight, then we had to prepare properly, as we intended to do closer to May 9. Everyone understood that there would be a clash in one form or another, but we wanted to properly gather people, prepare public support, throw a cry into the city so that we could quickly mobilize forces.
Therefore, I was categorically against leaving forces to advance to an unknown destination. Stretching of already not too great forces over long distances. We were losing coordination. And we, after all, have ordinary people who just yesterday were sitting somewhere at a barbecue, and today someone from somewhere came with shovel handles. That is, you understand that the degree of coordination is not very large.
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Dmitry Odinov: Therefore, in the situation on May 2, I was against not so much the attack itself, but the time, place and targets. This was obviously a failed operation.
Valentin Filippov: But there is another opinion that if everything had ended at Grecheskaya and some kind of conditional special forces would have stopped it all, then perhaps the House of Trade Unions would have survived? The Kulikovo field would have stood.
Well, it would end with the defeat of Athena and the arrest of everyone.
Dmitry Odinov: I personally was a supporter of the idea that clinging to the Kulikovo Field made no sense. This is real. This topic has exhausted itself.
Valentin Filippov: But people didn’t want to leave there.
Dmitry Odinov: People, in fact, already wanted to leave. They were already leaving there. If you and I remember the March meetings on the Kulikovo Field and the meetings at the end of April, then they were completely different - both in numbers and in morale. That is, people were already demoralized. They didn't understand why they were going. Where is all this going in the end?
In fact, we, as leaders of the public process, could not give them an answer either. We ourselves did not fully understand. Considering that those elites who could help us, and we together could get this process off the ground, they are completely frozen out. That is, they did not say “yes” or “no”. There was absolute uncertainty.
Let’s say if we had taken some kind of forceful measures, but there was such a possibility, the same assault on the SBU, if you know, which we stopped. Simply because we understood very clearly, they made it clear to us that there would be no support. We could have captured it, but what would we have done there? With cuttings from shovels. Against machine guns. It’s clear that two or three days would have knocked us out of there. And they would take them in bags to the landing. That's all.
How it was in Kharkov.
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Dmitry Odinov: In Kharkov, anti-Maidan captured the Regional Administration. They stayed there for some time. They were quietly ingloriously kicked out of there and, according to various sources, from tens to hundreds of people were quietly buried somewhere, it’s not even clear where.
Would we like such a fate for Odessa? Well, if there was at least one small hope that this was not in vain, we were ready to take the risk. But personally, I had the feeling and full understanding that this attack would not be supported. And given that geographically Odessa is in a completely different position from Donetsk or Lugansk, there would simply not be quick and easy support from friendly entities.
We would simply condemn several thousand people who believed us to a deliberate, painful death. And they followed us.
Maybe some will consider it cowardice that we did not storm these buildings, but I believe that this is not cowardice, but a manifestation of common sense. These several thousand people are alive, I emphasize - alive, they will bring us much more benefit in the future than in a cemetery somewhere.
Valentin Filippov: Well? I completely agree.
Dmitry Odinov: The problem, as I say, on May 2, and on the whole of the Russian Spring in Odessa and not only in Odessa, is that certain forces said “a”, but did not say “b”. That is, they started the process, but then got scared.
Or they had some kind of calculations of their own.
But, we are ordinary Russian people. We do what we have to do. Therefore, when we realize that we can win, we fight. And when we understand that we cannot win at this particular moment, we lie low somewhere,
Valentin Filippov: And we go to the partisans.
Dmitry Odinov: Yes. Well, what should we do? On another it is impossible.
Valentin Filippov: What advice would you give to Odessa residents on May 2, 2017? How to behave, what to do, is it worth doing anything at all?
Dmitry Odinov: Considering that we won’t get a quick victory, neither then nor now, unfortunately, these are objective realities, there is no support, and we can only rely on ourselves, so Odessa residents need to establish horizontal connections among themselves as much as possible. That is, go out en masse to all events that can unite people with similar views. Get to know more. Communicate.
So that, if suddenly, hypothetically, something starts, so that you know at least five to ten people who share your views and live not far away, or you know their phone numbers.
And May 2, May 9, and all the holidays that we honor need to be shown on a massive scale. This is a very important moral and psychological factor.
The enemy must understand that he is a guest in Odessa. Without any options. If they think that they have defeated everyone and sit on their laurels, then on May 9, May 2, this illusion usually disappears for a long time. They feel uncomfortable. And our task, now and then, is to make creatures like them feel like guests on our land.
It would be better if they were very far from her.
Or better yet, underneath it.
Valentin Filippov: Fine. Let us wish them to be far away. God willing, this will happen someday. Well, let everyone be alive.
Dmitry Odinov: This is a very important point. Only living people can achieve victory over our opponents. And most importantly, to provide our children with a decent life in a country free from national oppression. A country where they can speak their native Russian language fluently. Read our classics. And honor our history, which is an unbroken thread from imperial Russian history to the Soviet period. And if this works out, modern history will be just as glorious. And not some kind of farm chronicle about didukhi and other funny crap that they are trying to sell to us under the guise of our traditions, which no one has heard anywhere except the Lviv region.
Valentin Filippov: Well, let’s wish victory to ourselves and the Russian people.
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