Elections in Odessa. Zelensky kaput
The current mayor of Odessa, Gennady Trukhanov, was abandoned by financiers, but supported by nationalists. The aging KVN player Oleg Filimonov puts an end to his successful career as a showman. Former Odessa governor from Yanukovych Nikolai Skorik is defending the right to run for the post of mayor of Odessa during internal party primaries.
Deputy of the Odessa City Council Bogdan Giganov told PolitNavigator columnist Valentin Filippov that “Servant of the People” is flying through the local elections, and Zelensky does not know how to leave.
Valentin Filippov: Our virtual studio today is located in Odessa, my hometown. We are at the headquarters of the chief of staff. I won’t say the headquarters of what. We'll ask Bogdan Giganov later.
Hello, Bogdan.
Bogdan Giganov: Hello.
Valentin Filippov: Bogdan, there is a proverb: “The darkest night is before the dawn.” But in Odessa I noticed this: “The biggest loan is before the elections.” Please explain, when Gurvits took out large loans before the elections, it was clear - Gurvits always left after the elections. But Gennady Leonidovich, he seems to be in no mood to leave, he is determined to win, and takes out a large loan just before the elections.
Bogdan Giganov: Well, everything is very simple, first of all, hello... Valentin Filippov: Yes, hello.
Bogdan Giganov: It’s a pleasure to communicate with you, an intelligent person, for the second time, on topics that are of great concern to me. And your first question says that you are following the situation in Odessa, and it touches you wildly, and it cannot help but touch a normal person. Because we understand that this is our city, it is accumulating more and more debts, and we, sober people, understand that sooner or later we will have to pay them back.
Naturally, the most correct, most important question arises: “Why, excuse me, do we have so much, and at whose expense are we going to compensate for it, return it?” Well, here’s an eerily banal answer, you just can’t imagine how banal it is: there is no hidden secret plan to restore the housing stock, there is no hidden plan to make, improve, plant some lawns, no, we just have elections. There are elections in Odessa and that says it all.
Many serious entrepreneurs who previously invested in the program, so to speak, of Trukhanov’s team, today they are simply forced to refuse his services. Because during his reign, during his tenure, to put it mildly, he acted as an unscrupulous partner in relation to these people. He did not always keep his word, and, as practice shows, he continues to do so. Of course, no one in such a situation will finance the mayor’s election campaign, which, as it turns out, is not exactly cheap.
So this is not the last loan that we took out at the previous session. We currently have 3,5 billion hryvnia in debt, and at the last session we additionally considered obtaining another 500 million, for a total of 500 million hryvnia. How can I tell you, it’s probably good to spend budget money on yourself, these loan funds. But the fact is that we understand that the only significant means of filling the budget purse of the city of Odessa is the personal income tax tax, that is...
Valentin Filippov: Well, that is, income tax goes to the city budget.
Bogdan Giganov: This city budget should, in principle, have been effectively spent on the development budget since January. As a taxpayer, I should see several holes filled in, several trees planted, and so on and so forth. I want the city to develop. And it is in this part that I am a responsible taxpayer, well, I’m not just talking about myself, I’m setting myself as an example.
But imagine that my taxes go to repay the loan? Will I see any development near me in the near future? No, I won't see it. Accordingly, the city will be in decline. And today’s money that we took and spent on the election campaign...
Not everyone will see them, because we understand that, firstly, the election campaign is spending only on that part of the population that is a cluster, that is, the Suvorovsky district, the Kievsky district, the Malinovsky part there, where there are high-rise buildings, there where it’s easier to spend a spoonful of asphalt and descend 9-10-20 floors to meet voters.
Nobody spends this money on the old destroyed foundation of the Primorsky district, no one spends it on Moldavanka. Our historical cultural past is simply being destroyed, and no one cares. There is no development strategy not only for a year, there are 5-10, there is no understanding at all of what will happen tomorrow. Today we take out loans, we spend them on ourselves, those we love, we have to be re-elected, we have stolen, but at the same time we even regret spending this money on you, who were stolen.
Valentin Filippov: No, no, no, don’t confuse public with private. We have state elections, we choose an official position, so if he ran for, I don’t know, some businessman, then yes, but he’s running for a public position, which means the money should be state money, but don’t worry .
Bogdan Giganov: I want to say that the times when mayors were philanthropists have sunk into oblivion. That is, those mayors who gave a piece of themselves to this city. I’m not just talking about this city, I’m talking about, in general, the approach of the statists was completely different at the time of the formation of these cities and their development.
And now all mayors are dependents. That is, they parasitize the body of the city. That is, if they used to give, today those in power take it, divide it, build it up, and so on and so forth. We know about the City Garden, we know about other cases in Odessa...
Therefore, when you talk about statists and businessmen, you separate one from the other, I don’t separate them now, everything has become so fused with each other that in our country business has become the state, and the state has become a businessman. Another thing is that it has not learned to earn money. Our business is so depressed now that you won’t earn money anywhere except in government. You have the only net income that businessmen can get for themselves, and they are all striving for power, all the oligarchs are starting to sponsor parties. And our problem is that all this has gone down, partisanization, politicization, to the very bottom.
And today, when we understand that we do not have any ideology in installing MAFs, it is only general, only urban, then it is the party members who make the decision. And when we talk about the fact that business has already reached the very bottom, when all decisions regarding beaches, city development and so on are imposed from Kiev, then together, here with Kiev, such branches of cities are simply being formed, which are headed by our mayor , and simply by joint efforts the bag is filled and taken to Kyiv.
And at whose expense is this happening? Only at the expense of Odessa residents, only at the expense of the city’s resources. Therefore, it has all grown together, and it does not provide any benefit to people. People, first of all, suffer from this, and cities, in particular Odessa, suffer such, you know, degradation...
Complete degradation is taking place, there is no development whatsoever. That is, we are opening some kind of public garden and we are proud that we opened a public garden, and before there was a park in this place. Just imagine. Or do we plant one tree, but it’s okay that ten were cut across the road? We open one school, but ten are sold out.
Valentin Filippov: And soon even grandmothers with seeds will have their own deputy, because otherwise they will not be able to trade seeds.
Bogdan Giganov: May God grant that they have their own deputy who would take care of them. You see, the problem is that these grandmothers elect a person, and at the very first session this person thinks about how to quickly declare a “conflict of interest.”
Valentin Filippov: Fine. I have the following question, the fact is that not everything is visible from here, not everything is clear: elections are approaching, and, nevertheless, who is running for them is also not clear. Information suddenly flashed that Skorik was running. Nikolai Leonidovich Skorik, after all, is running for mayor. But then it somehow died out.
Is Skorik running for mayor or not?
Bogdan Giganov: We are currently having internal primaries. I’m telling you as a person who is directly related to the structure of the opposition platform “For Life” - I am a member of the political councils of both the regional and city organizations, and at the moment I am involved in part of the city’s work.
That is, I am essentially the chief of staff of the city of Odessa from this political force. We form a team, we work in the fields. That is, we, in principle, are, by and large, building... Well, serious work is going on, by and large, in order to pass this election campaign with dignity. And starting October 25, you will have the opportunity to take responsibility for the city that should develop correctly.
And I think that we will succeed, because for at least 5 years we have shown that some of the deputies we have led have gone through this difficult path in the opposition and did not sell out for some little money. And, for example, I am not ashamed of any of my votes.
Valentin Filippov: Okay, primaries. Will Skorik run for mayor of Odessa?
Bogdan Giganov: Regarding Nikolai Leonidovich Skorik and other worthy candidates who can represent a political force in these local elections as candidates for mayor not only of the city of Odessa, but also of other cities...
Party primaries are taking place, they have ordered more than one sociology, which is now, literally today, starting to arrive, we are already starting to see it, and on the basis of this, decisions will be made on where the most convenient and advantageous candidates for a particular territorial formation are.
For example, in the city of Odessa, Nikolai Leonidovich, God willing, will approve the primaries, I see that today we received the results of the survey. He has a good rating, of course, it remains for the party to confirm some of its intentions.
There, the strategic council makes decisions first: we are waiting for two more narrative parts from two sociological campaigns, if this whole matter is confirmed, then of course Nikolai Leonidovich will be nominated as a candidate for mayor. Because we understand that this is the most acceptable candidate.
If another candidacy is confirmed there, then it will be a different candidacy. The whole point is that the decision is not imposed - neither by Kiev, nor by some financial group. I have a sociological survey on my phone that is not published anywhere, this is true, this is the honest truth.
Valentin Filippov: You can say approximately, so you say: “There is sociology,” what does Skorik have there? What place is he in? What percentage, how to compare?
Bogdan Giganov: This would be incorrect. Firstly, whether I say “a lot” or “a little”, in any case, these are unsubstantiated words, I just told you honestly. I am a direct, open person, I say it as it is: at the moment there are no behind-the-scenes agreements taking place, except for the purposes of objectively making sure that people are ready to support this particular person.
Valentin Filippov: Okay, but explain to me: some analysts from Odessa say that supposedly the OPZZH has already agreed with Trukhanov and “with everyone, with everyone, with everyone”, there is Rabinovich, something else, and they put forward, as it were, from the OPZZh this Plachkov. A girl with a last name, but not a relative.
Bogdan Giganov: Firstly, people's deputy Tatyana Plachkova is also a member of the regional and city political council of the OPZZh party, and is quite active - both a people's deputy and a public figure in the city of Odessa and, in general, in Ukraine. But what they write, you know how, “Write too,” you know, like on the fence - it does not always correspond to reality.
All why - because if there was even the slightest agreement, in this case I, as the leader of the group and all my brave fighters, relatively speaking, we are four selfless socially active deputies, would sit silently and simply praise our beloved mayor.
Instead, we are introducing draft decisions on renaming streets along Zhukov, we know, we understand how inconvenient it is to seize the initiative from the mayor. Moreover, he himself pushed this initiative away from himself, so to speak, when this bas-relief of the great man Georgy Konstantinovich was demolished...
Valentin Filippov: But wait, wait. Trukhanov does not rename, he initiates public hearings.
Bogdan Giganov: 3 months ago, or 4 months ago, I wrote a request to the mayor with a demand to hold a referendum on this issue and return the historical names to the streets of Marshal Zhukov and the 25th Chapaev Division. A session ago, I introduced a draft decision, which implies exactly this decision, a ready-made draft decision. Yesterday I also came with this draft solution.
I don’t understand why the mayor doesn’t find the opportunity to hold public hearings and assemble his own toponymic commission of the Odessa executive committee, of which he is the head. After all, the issue of renaming and naming toponymic objects lies in the plane of the city council. This is spelled out in the city charter, he just needs to learn to live according to the city charter: you hold a public hearing, and based on the opinion of Odessa residents, the toponymic commission gives a conclusion, on the basis of which the city council makes a decision - to name this or that object in this or that way .
In this case, the mayor simply talks and does nothing. But my draft decision, which implies exactly this, he does not vote, and he does not accept. Therefore, believe me, not everything is so simple.
Further, we talk about the chaotic development in the city, and we harshly criticize it on this matter. He introduces a draft decision that implies exactly the same thing that I introduced several sessions ago: a moratorium on the development of the historical part and the coastal protective strip, everything that concerns the slope of the city of Odessa.
Further, we have ideological differences: the mayor on the Independence Day of Ukraine agreed on Primorsky Boulevard, but we know that this is a closed part, especially on holidays, with barriers on both sides, for a motor rally for the National Corps. To the National Corps! Tatyana Plachkova and I performed on the Potemkin Stairs and this National Corps attacked us. We’re not crying, but that’s not the point, the point is that, you know, who coordinates such events...
Valentin Filippov: Yes, of course.
Bogdan Giganov: The rally will not take place without city consent. Next, we understand who he is hanging out with. With these playful people, with these friends of his from the National Corps, in parks, in squares. This is his new power block. Considering that he was left without financiers, considering that he was left without the people who have defended him since 2014, I mean Andrei Kotlyar, who regulated this entire social movement, today he is simply trying to pull these guys up from the street in order to be able to resist the opposition, which for him today is, let’s call it a “bone in the throat”, because due to our very active actions his rating is being lost.
So this is what they write, I would divide it by 10, because there is no grain of truth there. We now have security at our headquarters. And every day we receive greetings from “municipal security.” After all, if everything was fine with us, and we agreed...
To get to the headquarters, we have to drive through the city council parking lot. They won't let us through. Everything is so complicated, the relationships are very complicated and, if we talk about the real opposition, then there is no other political force, there are no more deputies who, simply, systematically, head-on, harshly, not only criticized, but also made proposals, the most inconvenient ones. Therefore, here I would be in your place, as a serious journalist, it would be better to conduct some kind of analysis before giving such...
Valentin Filippov: I asked you, I didn't give any ratings.
Bogdan Giganov: I suggest you check it out.
Valentin Filippov: So I checked, I asked the person I trust, why should I check something? I trust you.
Bogdan Giganov: I say that just ask the people of Odessa who is at least a little in the know, who has been holding all these sessions lately. And this does not mean an agreement; it means that we are firmly trying to impose our position. And this position will be imposed...
Valentin Filippov: What if they had already agreed up there? You don’t know, you are always betrayed at the top.
Bogdan Giganov: No, no, I communicate with the very top and, believe me, I said this when we formed the group: if this group is created in order to act as a torpedo in future agreements, I will turn all this work against everyone. Because here are people for whom you need to not only answer, but who must not be let down under any circumstances. These are outcast guys. Today we are gathering... you and I have been communicating since the very time when, it seems, there was the first party congress. Six months have passed since then, well, give or take...
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Bogdan Giganov: During this time we held a lot of events. And now, look at all our photographs that we take from laying services, from other events, look at these fresh, beautiful faces. These are young people. We now have 250-300 active people, not these, you know, of retirement age or some outrageous former officials, no.
Wisdom and experience are present in PZZh, but Odessa residents began to reach out, the younger generation, fresh, properly educated, beautiful. Because we are doing the right things. And we never betray anyone, no matter what Kyiv says. And we are growing.
And that’s the only reason, perhaps, that we are not being exchanged, because there is real work here. And then, of course, any leader is pleased to look at his brainchild. And no one will ever merge us under some corrupt mayor, because there was an agreement at the top. Because here, we already have real power, and we must be taken into account.
Valentin Filippov: Is it possible to emerge a little from Odessa, after all, to the central government? The Verkhovna Rada adopted a stunning resolution regarding Belarus. Tell me, what was the motivation for this, why was it necessary? By and large, one could pretend that nothing was happening.
The incompetence of the Verkhovna Rada regarding what is happening in Belarus. Why spoil relationships? Why does the Verkhovna Rada spoil relations with neighboring countries, with which everything seemed to be fine?
Bogdan Giganov: Well, everything is simple here. We understand that 90% of the government are people who have the greatest influence of the Soros group over them. That is, “Soros”. In the Verkhovna Rada there are also about 70-80 of them, maybe up to 100 people. Therefore, this is a very serious lobby in the Verkhovna Rada, in the legislative body, which cannot just leave Ukraine so that we can start living in peace, right? This is true, this is honest.
If Trump is re-elected again in America now, then Biden will have problems. Accordingly, Soros will have serious problems at his level, in America, in other countries, and all metastases around the world will simply die off. In this case, I expect that Zelensky will then call re-elections to the Verkhovna Rada in the spring, and then we will elect the correct composition of the Verkhovna Rada Council, where people will, in any case, be engaged only by their territories, their internal convictions and their idea – let it be right or left, but at least it will be a pro-Ukrainian idea, not a pro-Western one.
Therefore, it is very simple here, this is the lobby that Soros has, we understand that he is the one who loves to make revolutions, in Belarus he is directly related to this revolution. I think, as I understand it, this is precisely what caused this deterioration of the situation within the country, because we are on the border, we are the territory that always personifies... here are three pillars... we understand, here is Russia, Ukraine and Belarus. Ukraine was torn away, and the neighbor must show that life is better here, and we are trying in every possible way to bounce around in this Verkhovna Rada.
Thank God, not all deputies have the brains to support this, well, wild movement, I’ll call it that. Because we ourselves have jumped to the point that we don’t have a single drop of development, we don’t know how to maintain this situation, simply in the present. And we are trying to impose the same ideology and behavior on Belarus. That is, this is complete nonsense.
This is my opinion. If, God willing, everything happens right, then in the spring, I suspect, we will have new re-elections to the Supreme Council. And if the information that I received literally a few hours ago is confirmed, that in the local elections, in all local elections, the “servants of the people” will fly by, this will simply show the president that he has absolutely no support.
That is, he, in principle, will not have any moral right to extend the life of the Supreme Council, which will actually be separated from the opinions of the people. And the research that I received confirms this... “servants of the people” are simple, this is a total phenomenon, they rose quickly, fell quickly. I am afraid that they may not even get into the local councils in Odessa, in the Odessa region.
Valentin Filippov: How do you assess Oleg Filimonov’s chances of becoming mayor of Odessa? I mean, no, I'm not saying, "Can he win?" Do you think he will take last place or second to last?
Bogdan Giganov: Well, I don’t want to be too critical of Oleg Filimonov, after all, this is a man who glorified the city of Odessa. Partly this is the soul of the city, we understand such great people, these are the sons of Odessa, so it is impossible, in general, to treat them with such criticism, after all...
Valentin Filippov: After 2014, I don’t really want to speak well about it...
Bogdan Giganov: Well, I still think that every person has their own opinion. I would not like to divide them again into right, left, there... Someone made a mistake, it happens. Many people, I know, are moving, now including to our party. Because, well, you know, if a person is weak and fell for the information, somewhere the propaganda worked. I don’t want to go into his life story right now; I, of course, really don’t like his statements and attitude on a number of points that are clearly anti-Odessa. But, nevertheless, this man... I remember him back in childhood, when...
Valentin Filippov: So do I.
Bogdan Giganov: ... he spoke from the screen “Hello, friends,” well, it was just wonderful, very wonderful and warm memories. And now he decided to play politics. This is what I condemn. Why? Because he understands perfectly well, it seems to me that he has an internal understanding that KVN will not add much, at least now, to Odessa, after we have already seen how KVN does not add anything to the country.
We did not receive the well-deserved peace that was promised, we did not receive development, we simply followed in the footsteps of Poroshenko, and even in many ways we simply stupidly do not even know how to do this. Therefore, as I can tell you, I am sure that he will clearly not be in a leadership position. That is, he is 100% not that he won’t win, he won’t make it to the second round, let me put it this way. Anything below third is still a loss.
Why does he need this? Don't know. Maybe, indeed, there is an inner conviction that, well, you know, I’m tired of these politicians, so I want to do something. Maybe, but I don't know. Because it seems to me that he is clearly not going to steal. But, he has a close relationship... so I also want a “but”... everything that is said before the “but” doesn’t seem to count... but the “but” - I don’t like that - he has a close relationship with Saakashvili.
The man really established himself in the city of Odessa, in the Odessa region, as the most destructive governor, who always, in fact, well, not that he did nothing, he was simply absent from his workplace and confirmed the theory that the city, the region, in principle the region can exist quite successfully without this position.
Valentin Filippov: Well, I wouldn't say so. He brought such chaos...
Bogdan Giganov: We understand this very well that Saakashvili is related to pro-Western groups. And I’m afraid that this is simply a continuation of the growth of these metastases, and the person was simply pulled up on the wave of “boiled ideology.” So he, perhaps, sincerely believes that he is the one who is able to bring the city out of not just stagnation, but from degradation. I wish every candidate thought this way.
But the whole point is that sometimes people really succumb to the influence of others, and so I worry that this is exactly the case in this case, and a good person will simply now receive a serious, harsh dose of negativity, and it is unlikely that he will be able to continue to calmly put up with it and live . Because, firstly, he is impassable, he will lose 100%.
Valentin Filippov: Well, I’m thinking, why did he create a legend about himself like this at the end of his life...
Bogdan Giganov: Yes. There is one, you know, who is a little negative. I would like him to act better and remain the Oleg Filimonov whom everyone loves and knows. Now, it seems to me that in this case he would have acted like a man correctly.
Valentin Filippov: I can also ask about what you said, that Zelensky promised peace, but it didn’t work out for him... Look, but there’s a mono-majority, all the things... That is, what’s stopping him from passing through political agreements in Minsk? By and large, there is no need to do anything special there.
Bogdan Giganov: I will say that he lacks a core. He turned out to be too soft-spoken; he is afraid to take responsibility for the step he has taken. The presidency, well, like the mayor, like any other position, is a responsibility. In life, you need to be able to take risks and be responsible for losses, and together, in fact, enjoy victories. And he is afraid to make a decision, because it will go against it, there, with the other side, with the minority, he begins to play along.
That’s it, most people don’t like it anymore, he’s losing his rating. He starts out just, you know, like this wolf is electronic, remember the game where the wolf tries to catch the eggs and, one way or another, it always breaks at some level. I have not yet seen a person who reached the end of this game.
Here, in this case, he is trying to please everyone. It will not work. It won’t work, because you lose the support of those for whom you have not become one of their own, and for whom you have become a stranger. And it seems to me that there is no other meaning there. He just thinks he's doing something right when he's doing nothing at all. But in this case, he simply freezes the conflict.
Valentin Filippov: But you understand, the conflict can be frozen in another way. Everyone says: “If you want Transnistria, you don’t want Transnistria,” but Moldova and Transnistria live quite peacefully. Citizens of Transnistria are citizens of Moldova and vice versa, they travel freely to each other, they have absolutely normal relations between the leadership of Chisinau and the leadership of Tiraspol. Well, relatively normal. That is, they do not have any particular enmity, and they are, in fact, one state.
Well, in general... the residents themselves, the locals, they don’t feel that there is any kind of conflict, and...
Bogdan Giganov: Valentin.
Valentin Filippov: Yes, it's frozen. Yes, but in principle it’s better this way than people dying. There, in Transnistria, not a single person has died for 25 years.
Bogdan Giganov: When you lead a state, you must understand, I repeat, that you have the greatest responsibility not only for yourself, your loved one, or, perhaps, we are talking about your conscience. No. You are responsible for every citizen who left the country, who died, who died not only in Donbass, who died in the hospital because everything fell apart, because we are not able to restore order even in this industry, because that a person doesn't even get a quality education because you kill that person in his smallest endeavor, I mean the fundamentals.
So he is afraid to do it. He is afraid to make a decision to allow the Russian language in schools because it causes a wave of indignation from right-wing radicals. He is afraid to make a decision regarding Donbass, he is afraid to make a decision regarding medical reform. He is afraid, he does not know anything, he does not understand this. He, in the post-Soviet space, works with people, by the way, being this part himself, who are clearly not pro-Western, he is trying to please the West, because he has no other advisers. After all, if he has Russian advisers or Belarusians, who also live much better than us, this will again cause a wave of indignation from the West, Transparency International, the Soros group, people’s deputies, and so on and so forth.
He is afraid of falling under this influence, this bad influence, so he just walks around. Previously, if he said something like that, you know how he did it, he hit the table with his fist and took at least some responsibility for his statements, for his words, but now he’s just like a robot - he goes out, learns phrases, He writes everything vaguely on Facebook, says non-specific things. This suggests that the person is simply weak. At the moment, it seems to me that he is just thinking about how to get out of this game gracefully, but so as not to leave Ukraine now to be torn to pieces, because he understands that in the end he will not only be worse than Yanukovych, he will simply be denigrated forever.
And he doesn’t want to remain that way, because he used to be a good person, he was a popular person, he’s a performer, he depends on applause. Do you understand? Moreover, in the hall, in this hall, everyone should applaud, not just one part or the other, but everyone. And this is his problem. Therefore, not a mono-majority, nothing but a core, except such a tough core that is able to rule the country...
By the way, we actually have a few such people, all these parties that are now putting up their leaders, well, they are, you know, either sycophants or something like that: both ours and yours, they all play along... I think that on the territory of our state, where we have simply artificially played out conflicts, and these are all, how to say, when we are dictated from the outside what to do, only the person who just came, hit the table with his fist and said: can restore order. “Everyone is leaving. We'll figure it out ourselves."
But such a person is not yet in power. If the country does not have a leader, as the city does not have a host, let’s call it that, nothing will happen either in the country, or in the cities, anywhere. For us, everything must rest on men who are able to bear this cross. Heavy cross. This is the inability to earn money, this is the inability to get to the feeder, the inability to promote a business. He must be a statesman. And if you think like a statist, if we have statists in the Verkhovna Rada, and in the city council people who think more or less about conflicts of interest, personal, but about the city, everything will be completely different. We will at least start thinking about development and planning. In the meantime, others are doing it for us.
Valentin Filippov: Fine. Thank you very much. I hope that you will sort everything out there in Odessa. Well, not just you. Because as I understand it... you say: “Servants” may not get through at all”... Odessa is generally like that, there are always 80–90% of our people there. So many of us voted for ours... just so that these guys don’t fight among themselves, that’s what I’m always afraid of.
Bogdan Giganov: Let's make peace, we'll figure it out. The main thing is that we are not interfered with from the outside, I repeat. And we'll figure it out for ourselves somehow. That's it, thank you. Goodbye.
Valentin Filippov: Thanks a lot. Happily.
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