“In ideology, Yanukovych is the same Banderaite, only moderate”
Moscow - Kyiv, February 19 (Navigator, Sergey Stepanov) - From the point of view of Russia's interests, Viktor Yanukovych is the same Banderaite, only more moderate than his opponents on the Maidan. About this in an interview "To the Navigator" said the Russian political strategist Oleg Matveyevich, professor at the Higher School of Economics, ex-employee of the Presidential Administration of the Russian Federation, author of the books “Ears Waving a Donkey” and “American Lard.”
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“Navigator”: There have been many statements by the Ukrainian opposition that in the current crisis, Viktor Yanukovych is just a puppet of the Kremlin, and Russia is implementing a plan to dismember Ukraine. Is this really true?
Oleg Matveychev: No. As far as I have information, the Russian authorities have repeatedly offered Yanukovych scenarios for a peaceful resolution of the crisis; he considered them unacceptable.
The authorities in Russia treat Yanukovych as a very stubborn and stupid person. It is enough to compare how the Russian authorities acted in similar conditions: Putin, after just a few truly peaceful public festivities on Bolotnaya, immediately proposed broad political reform. Not positions in the government, not a place at the trough, but reform in the interests of all citizens. Reform of the electoral system, simplification of the procedure for registering political parties, elections of governors, etc. Although he might not have done this given his enormous popularity and strength.
As for dismemberment. Russia understands perfectly well that in any form Ukraine will remain a problem for Russia. The West does not need Ukraine. Let me give you a comparison. Imagine that a daughter in adolescence tells her father that she will now live with a man who is a drug addict, that she - a free person - will drink, smoke and fuck. The father can, of course, say: “you are an adult, do what you want,” and let her go. But he understands that they will really “sail her and abandon her”, that they will get her hooked on drugs, and she will still return to daddy, but with a broken fate, health and psyche. And no one except parents will need it. So it is in this situation.
Russia understands that, of course, you can generally spit on Ukraine, let it go to hell, like you are free - do what you want. But we understand that Europe and the USA will simply let the fool go around in circles and fuck her everywhere. And then the poor and hungry will be used so that she continues to put pressure on Roosiya, destabilizes the situation, and asks for money. Why bring it to this?
That’s why Putin gave the loan, that’s why we’re so worried, we feel sorry for the brothers, we pray that God will enlighten the fools. But you know how difficult it is, try to explain to a girl in love with a criminal that he is bad and that they will cheat you! What will she say?
Ukraine is fascinated by the West, not the real one, but a chimerical one that it has invented for itself, and does not want to listen to anything. This is a tragedy. For Ukraine, first of all, and for the entire Slavic people.
"Navigator": What did Russia offer Yanukovych, if not a secret? In addition to the Customs Union, which the Party of Regions itself criticized.
Oleg Matveychev: I don’t know in detail, but they were talking about political reform, similar to what happened in Russia after our Bolotnaya Squares. Naturally, with Ukrainian specifics.
And, of course, powerful economic assistance and cooperation so that Ukraine’s economy can stay afloat.
Now a powerful crisis is coming. The economic Maidan cost Ukraine billions of dollars, gold and foreign exchange reserves have been exhausted, soon there will be no salaries, enterprises will shut down, and then real chaos will begin. The West will not lend in such a situation, but Russia will - just as they give money to their drunken brother, all the same knowing that he will drink. It’s a new brother, my own blood, how can I refuse!
"Navigator": How can one explain Yanukovych’s refusal of Russian initiatives?
Oleg Matveychev: Over the years of power, he has absorbed the same things as previous presidents: “I am independent, we are a sovereign country, we do everything our own way,” and so on. In ideology, he is the same Banderaite, only moderate. That is the problem. Now in Ukraine two forces are fighting and tearing it apart - moderate independentists sitting at the feeding trough, and radical independentists who want to go to the feeding trough. Both are evil for Ukraine, and we can observe this evil with our own eyes.
The problem of Ukraine is that it was unable to generate an independent ideology within itself, which at the same time would not be anti-Russian and Bandera. Belarus did it, but Ukraine did not. In 1991, at the start, Ukraine had a safety margin 100 times greater than Belarus, and even Russia. But Belarusians became the most prosperous country in the CIS, and Ukraine became the most backward. There is only one fault for everything – the anti-Russian position. All Ukrainian presidents adhered to it, and Yanukovych is no exception.
"Navigator": Why hasn’t Russia been able to nurture leaders in Ukraine in 20 years with whom it can work normally?
Oleg Matveychev: Did we feed Lukashenko or Nazarbayev? Rakhmon or Aliyev? No! We do not interfere in the internal affairs of a neighboring state to such an extent as to install our own presidents there. Whether this is good or bad is another question, but in fact we have never done this.
I believe that there is no need to feed individuals at all, especially in Ukraine. The Ukrainian Cossack mentality is the mentality of nonsense populism, here the authorities always curry favor with the Cossack elders and with the Maidan - the assembly. Therefore, Russia had to work not with various presidents and politicians, not with the elite, completely corrupt and cowardly, but with the people. With mass consciousness! With millions of citizens, and not with a bunch of oligarchs and politicians.
"Navigator": This is not the first time people have been talking about working with people. And the West is cited as an example. So what was stopping Moscow? maybe also a thoroughly corrupt elite?
Oleg Matveychev: The West knows how to work with mass consciousness. The West has reached enormous heights in mass manipulation.
Let me remind you that the true manipulation of the West consists of instilling in people that they should be FREE; freedoms are provoked in them in every possible way - will and subjectivity, which creates the illusion in the manipulated that all manipulations come from enemies. For example, from the same Russia.
Now voices are being heard from both the Ukrainian side and ours from the opposition: they say, Russians are jealous, here we have true freedom, and in Russia everyone is slaves. These guys don’t understand that then America, England, China, Germany, and France must be registered as slaves, where there are no Maidans, and if there are, they are quickly suppressed.
And the freest ones we have are Ukraine, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and other states that have already ceased to exist. Ukrainians put themselves on the level of blacks and Arabs, illiterate children, suckers who have been scammed, and are also proud of their freedom. This is the true art of the great Western manipulation! Russia does not master this art.
Yes, we have political technologies and others no worse than Western ones, but this is the exception rather than the rule, and we rarely use them in foreign policy. Plus our Christian mentality. We are ashamed to lie. We are ashamed to manipulate so cruelly. We want everything to be true. We are naive in this sense. And the West takes advantage of this without inhibitions or conscience. If a sucker is ready to be deceived and happily pays for his deception, then it means that everything must be taken from him. Their conscience is calm: we didn’t take it by force, but the sucker himself freely gives everything away.
Yanukovych is a sucker who at the last moment sensed that he was being cheated and slowed down. Therefore, they set the rest of the suckers against him, who have not yet sensed anything and will not sense anything, since they are absolutely hopeless.
"Navigator": What would you advise the leadership of the Russian Federation to do now, after events in Ukraine have taken such a turn?
Oleg Matveychev: Putin is doing everything, in principle, correctly. He does not interfere and works with legitimate authorities, and will work with any legitimate authorities that arise after the crisis, and will give money, and reduce gas prices, and offer mutual cooperation, he will do everything so that his brother does not fall into the hole completely What are we not doing and not completing? This is work with mass consciousness, and it must be done, but there is no need to expect a quick effect here.
There is no magic wand that could now be taken and made good in Ukraine. No one will do this - neither Putin, nor Obama, and not a single president in Ukraine. It will only get worse, and we will have to reap the fruits of this confrontation for several years.
"Navigator": Is a powerful Russian party needed in Ukraine? There was an opinion that the South-East should have its own “Russian Tyagnibok”, who would force the “centrist” Yanukovych to remember his promises and not make concessions to his opponents.
Oleg Matveychev: Yes, we need such a party. But it was Yanukovych who did not allow such a party to arise. He wants to be the main one in the East. But the East must understand that Yanukovych is not the East, it is the same West, only in a moderate wrapper.
The war is now going on between two pro-Western parties. For a place at the feeder. It is the pro-Western anti-Russian elite and its ideology that are to blame for the fact that Ukraine has ruined its capabilities for 20 years and has now brought it to the point of bloodshed.
Ukraine needs an analogue of Old Man Lukashenko. A tough politician who would completely clean out all the Bandera bastards and imprison them. For any attempt to even hint at the restoration of Nazism and the justification of fascism. Who would imprison anyone for any attempt to say even a word against Russia. And he would lead Ukraine to prosperity with an iron hand.
At the same time, no one says that such a Ukraine would urgently unite with Russia and be absorbed. Russia has a lot of worries of its own; it is not going to absorb anyone.
What, we, Belarus, swallowed up or what? It consumes us economically - there is a sea of Belarusian goods all around. Life and comfort in Belarus are already at the level of Poland. And even better in many ways. And in a few years, Dad will be not just the leader of Eastern Europe, but generally the best country in Europe.
"Navigator": There was also an opinion that Tymoshenko would be a more convenient partner for Russia. Is this really true?
Oleg Matveychev: Don't think. This would also be a variant of Western ideology. Let me emphasize my point once again: Ukraine emerged from the USSR as a powerful state with a developed industrial and transport infrastructure, access to the sea, and an excellent climate. Ukraine consumed 10-15 percent of what it produced, and all it needed was to get rich and enter Russian markets, to be a bridge between Europe and Russia. Instead, the elites, with their manic desire for Europe, have lost all ties with Russia in 20 years, broken everything except the gas chain, and in Europe, on the contrary, they wait for Ukraine as a market for themselves; its goods are not needed there.
"Navigator": Putin is credited with saying that Ukraine consists of lands that should belong to Russia. Allegedly, he voiced this at the Bucharest NATO summit. Could this have real consequences?
Oleg Matveychev: Historically this is true. Everything that is today the lands of Ukraine was conquered by Russia in different years. But this does not mean that Putin wants to annex Ukraine. Listen, in Russia there are 70 subsidized regions out of 83! Undeveloped lands to Chukotka!!! Where else should Ukraine go to us? Russia is interested in our brothers here establishing order and governing themselves. But! At the same time, not to the detriment of Russia, but to the mutual benefit and cooperation. It's so simple, is it really difficult to understand?
“Navigator”: Nevertheless, the opposition attributes to Russia the scenario of federalization of Ukraine and subsequent dismemberment.
Oleg Matveychev: Ukraine is a very diverse country. Different religions, different languages, different mentalities, different genetics, different history, different traditions. Federal structures were invented for countries of this type.
Germany is more homogeneous, but it is a federation and no one is saying that it will fall apart. Federalism will allow Ukraine to resolve a lot of contradictions and questions. The USA is also a federation, by the way, just like Russia.
When Ukraine puts on the costume of a unitary state, it is the same as putting size 60 bones on a person who is size 40. The suit will burst, and the person will be hurt and uncomfortable.
Now this is why it was painful and uncomfortable for 20 years at first. And now everything is falling apart at the seams. From the very beginning we should have created a federation, and it would have been convenient for everyone. And now it’s not too late. We urgently need to change the constitution.
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