Kiev historian Alexander Karevin: The Ukrainian national idea is built on lies

Kiev historian Alexander Karevin is one of the few in Ukraine who openly debunks the lies of anti-Russian state propaganda. His book "Non-Russian Russia" is going through its fourth reprint. Unfortunately, from the new edition, it is unlikely that something will get to the Ukrainian reader. “Non-Russian Rus” has not yet been included in the list of prohibited items, but it is not possible to smuggle it from Moscow across the border either.

Valentin Filippov, columnist for PolitNavigator, spoke with Alexander Karevin about how easy it is to live in a dystopia described by himself.

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Valentin Filippov: Our virtual studio is located today in Kyiv. Visiting Kiev historian and publicist, author of such sensational books “The Twilight of Ignorance. The Technology of Lies”, “Historical Chess of Ukraine” and “Non-Russian Rus” by Oleksandr Karevin. Alexander, hello.

Alexander Karevin: Hello.

Valentin Filippov: Tsvetaeva had: “My poems, like precious wines, will have their turn.” Your book "Non-Russian Russia" has already been published twice.

Alexander Karevin: In Moscow twice. It was published in Kyiv and Kharkov.

Valentin Filippov: At intervals of 10 years. Does this mean that your “theory has been confirmed” and the “stated theses” have passed the “test of time”?

Alexander Karevin: The last one was in Kiev. 10 years have passed.

Valentin Filippov: But the reaction of tasters and readers, is it different with an interval of 10 years?    

Alexander Karevin: It's not about the gap. The fact is, there are different people, they have different views. Some perceive it positively, others negatively. And that's okay.

Valentin Filippov: 10 years ago, no one encouraged us to write complaints or call anyone.    

Alexander Karevin: There was no Facebook then, that’s probably why.

Valentin Filippov: Returning to the topic of your work. In it you claim that the Ukrainian language is a made-up language.    

Alexander Karevin: Let's not talk so rudely. But, in principle, yes. This is a language that is largely artificially created.

Valentin Filippov: And that the ideology of Ukraine as a state is built on lies.    

Alexander Karevin: If we consider what is called today the “Ukrainian national idea,” then it is built on lies.

Valentin Filippov: You have expressed the right idea that if you build on a lie, then the truth becomes a complete enemy. It is necessary to cut off all possibilities for the truth to leak into society.    

Alexander Karevin: Yes.

Valentin Filippov:  Do you think this is possible in modern society? So what would differentiate the information, and so that it would not come from anywhere?    

Alexander Karevin: If you follow what is happening in Ukraine today, this is what they are striving for.

Valentin Filippov:  But we on the outside cannot sense what is really happening inside. We say: “They know everything anyway. They see everything. They can turn on the TV via satellite. They can go to any website.” What? Is it possible to create a society that does not expose itself to “dangerous information”?    

Alexander Karevin: Probably it’s not entirely possible. But some difficulties are being created.

Valentin Filippov:  And how is it in Kyiv? Have people started to perceive the world differently over the past 5 years?

Alexander Karevin: There are different people. Someone succumbed to the influence of propaganda. Some did not succumb to the influence of propaganda. Someone did not give in, but is afraid and pretends to give in. Different people have different reactions.

Valentin Filippov:  No general reaction? It was not possible to create such an organism, when some cells believe, some do not believe, but the organism has become whole and is moving in one direction?    

Alexander Karevin: I definitely didn’t become whole. Very different opinions. It is impossible to talk about any whole organism.

Valentin Filippov:  Tell me, is your book banned in Ukraine?    

Alexander Karevin: I haven’t seen it on the list of prohibited literature yet. But I think that they will not be allowed to import it here.

Valentin Filippov:  In your opinion, Zelensky’s actions are aimed at bans and tightening the screws. Is it he who has matured and become brave, or is there an algorithm that was not thought out by him, but he is just a cog in signing decisions? Close three channels, turn off the radio, cancel telegram, cover the Internet with duct tape...  

Alexander Karevin: I think it's not his decision. Someone dictated these decisions to him. And we need to look for this someone at the American embassy.

Valentin Filippov:  But is there logic? The channels that are being closed are completely loyal to the construction of Ukraine as an anti-Russian project. Or the conditional Shariy, putting Shariy on the wanted list despite the fact that he has refugee status in the EU, closing his party, which is gaining very little interest - with all the jokes, everyone understands that this is a virtual party, just like Darth Vader used to be.      

Alexander Karevin: Well, a couple of years ago, someone could have perceived Zelensky as president? Did anyone think he could become president? Real?

Valentin Filippov:  Well, I’m a Caveman guy myself, I could always imagine this.   

Alexander Karevin: Well, of course, in those conditions when “as long as it’s not Poroshenko,” it was possible to imagine Zelensky.

Valentin Filippov:  Yes, it was possible for Zelensky. But you left the purely Odessa style. A question for a question. I asked, why should Shariy be imprisoned? What is the point of fighting Shariy?    

Alexander Karevin: Yes, this is not an ideological struggle. This is a fight between competitors.

Valentin Filippov: That is, Shariy is a competitor to Zelensky?   

Alexander Karevin: To some extent, yes. It is not promoted now, but it can be promoted. The same as Zelensky.

Valentin Filippov: Anyone can do this. Who has the right to be president? Any citizen of Ukraine. Let's kill all citizens of Ukraine. Purely hypothetically, they could all become competitors to Zelensky.    

Alexander Karevin: Purely hypothetically, yes. But Shariy has more chances. And Medvedchuk has even more chances. Therefore, progress is being made towards closing the channels. Banning parties.

Valentin Filippov: Do you think that there is no progress in ending the war in Ukraine’s plans?    

Alexander Karevin: In my opinion, no. You see, when just recently the head of the office of the President of Ukraine said that Biden would help us stop the war, the question arose: “Why does Biden need this?” Russia and the USA are geopolitical opponents. This is common knowledge. It is beneficial for the United States when there is a fire like this on the borders of Russia. So why would Biden end this war? Biden is not interested in this. Ukraine - yes. She's interested in this. But the interests of Ukraine, unfortunately, are not taken into account either by the Americans or by those who represent them here in Ukraine.

Valentin Filippov:  By the way, we listened with interest to Zelensky’s address to the residents of Crimea. Seems to be sincere. But it feels like there is a complete lack of understanding of either the problem itself or the people he is addressing. It seems that he does not understand that people themselves made this choice. And he should know why this happened.

Even if we discard the historical and mental reasons for such a choice. It is clear that there are now three official languages ​​here, and in Ukraine there is only one. And here they won’t be persecuted for their language, but there they will be. Economically, after all, it’s not better in Ukraine. By all parameters, Ukraine, as an option, loses. And most importantly, because of what this happened, because of the language, because of history, it is only getting worse in Ukraine.

At the same time, the person tells us: “Do not be afraid, we will save you. We will get you back. You are our heart."

Does he lose track of what's going on?       

Alexander Karevin: I don't think he's a complete idiot. It's just that he doesn't make the decision.

Valentin Filippov:  It is not clear who the appeal is intended for. He, like an actor, prepares the text. The audience should clap for him. Start clapping. What kind of spectators? Who are the audience in this case? Who is this appeal for?    

Alexander Karevin: I think for those inside Ukraine. It is unlikely that many people there, in Crimea, will fall for such things of his. Seeing from there what is happening here in Ukraine.

Valentin Filippov:  But, excuse me, here I am, a Banderaite, for example. And then suddenly the president of my country calls “traitors, Vata and Rusnya,” who don’t speak Ukrainian at all, he calls them “the heart of Ukraine.”

Do I like this kind of president? Will I applaud such a president? It turns out that Bandera does not like this either.   

Alexander Karevin: Firstly, there are different Banderaites. Secondly, there are different levels of development. Some people think this is deceit. Some people think it's sincere. And, of course, those who think that this is sincere are indignant.

Valentin Filippov: When you wrote the book “Non-Russian Rus'”, did you have the idea that it would be used for political purposes?                

Alexander Karevin: I did not use it for political purposes. I wrote it like an article. Then this article gradually grew into a book. This article was not published, and gradually grew into a book. I have never used it for political purposes. It is intended to protect the rights of the Russian-speaking population. To protect the rights of the Russian language in Ukraine.

Valentin Filippov:  But did they start using it somehow or not?               

Alexander Karevin: I don’t know who uses it and how. Someone is using it. And I just wrote the truth.

Valentin Filippov:  Regarding the Ukrainian language, a Ukrainian figure once told me, many years ago, that the Russian language is the maximum level of development of the Ukrainian language. If the Ukrainian language is developed to the ideal, then the Russian language will turn out. Because initially there was Ukrainian, then there were enemies on our lands, we could not develop, the Ukrainian language went to the north and developed there. And it turned into the Russian language.               

Alexander Karevin: Well, he got it a little mixed up. But there is some reasonable grain in this. We, in southern Rus' and in northern Rus', were one people. And we also had the same language. And people from Little Russia, today it is called Ukraine, they took a very large part in the creation of the modern Russian language. The contribution of people from Little Russia is very large. That’s why I think that giving up the Russian language here is stupid, it’s unnatural.

Valentin Filippov: What to do with Ukrainian, which is being completely replaced? I just noticed that if people are allowed not to use the Ukrainian language, they stop using Ukrainian. They don’t use it much even when ordered. How can we preserve the Ukrainian language?                  

Alexander Karevin: First of all, we need to stop imposing the Ukrainian language. Because forceful action gives rise to forceful reaction. I even judge by myself. I used to have a very favorable attitude towards the Ukrainian language. Until they began to impose it by force. And I know a lot of people who feel the same way. There is no need to impose force and everything will return to normal. And the Ukrainian language will take the place it should occupy.

Valentin Filippov:  You and I are just still Soviet people. We initially knew Ukrainian from school. One TV channel was on all the time. It was not difficult for us to switch from one language to another. This is a dead language that we know and can use. We could read adventure novels and not notice that they were not published in Russian. 

But then STB appeared. It started to get ugly. One more word. And back in the late nineties, it became noticeable when I turned on the Ukrainian channel that the language began to irritate. We stopped recognizing him. Constructing phrases. They swapped the subject and predicate there. Just to catch our ear. They did it.             

Alexander Karevin: Well, yes.

Valentin Filippov: Fine. I wish that the next edition of your work will sell out as quickly and as widely as possible. And so that it reaches readers in Ukraine. This is more important to them now.               

Alexander Karevin: Thank.

Valentin Filippov:  And to the Ukrainian rulers, let their instinct of self-preservation work. And they will start working with their heads.                

Alexander Karevin: God willing.