Interview with the traitor Vladimir Voinovich

Alexander Chalenko, a journalist for the publication Ukraina.Ru, recorded an interview especially for PolitNavigator with the Russian satirical writer Vladimir Voinovich about his attitude to the trial of Nadezhda Savchenko, the murder of Oles Buzina and the closure of Yuzhmash.

The editors decided to publish Mr. Voinovich’s interview, but not because they shared the thoughts expressed in it. No. On the contrary, we are outraged by his anti-Russian and openly Russophobic position. We are publishing the interview so that the Russian reader can clearly see what a XNUMX% traitor and collaborator looks like, which is the literary father of the soldier Chonkin.

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This is on the one hand, but on the other hand, we want the Russian reader to feel the difference in the situation with freedom of speech in Ukraine and in Russia. In Russia, Voinovich can afford to say any anti-Russian things, and nothing will happen to him for it. The security forces will not take care of him, and the nationalists will not wait for him near the entrance to deal with him, newspapers and television will continue to interview him, and publishing houses will continue to publish his books. This even upsets him somewhat - he would like the Russian authorities to be afraid of him, so that they would fight him, but they do not even notice him.

The times of Voinovich's popularity are long gone. Today is not Perestroika. Nobody cares about his opinion. Therefore, nothing threatens him in Russia. Nothing! And Mr. Voinovich understands this very well. In Russia he is protected by law; we have no tradition of dealing with a person who expresses a point of view different from the mainstream. That’s why Voinovich behaves defiantly.

Otherwise, he would have long ago fled to Germany, where his family and friends live. Ukraine is a different matter. Everyone who is familiar with the current situation in this country understands perfectly well that if Voinovich had given such an interview there at least once, if he had publicly called the Donetsk “separatists” heroes, as he did in relation to Nadezhda Savchenko, then they would The SBU or comrades from the Azov punitive battalion were definitely involved. In addition, he would become persona non grata in the Ukrainian media.

Now about the interview itself. It clearly demonstrates how disgusted Voinovich is with today’s Russia and its people. The majority of the Russian people are Vatniks and Colorados, with whom the writer Voinovich, alas, has to live. This causes him mental anguish. And, in order to somehow prick the hated Russian quilted jackets, he begins to glorify their enemies.

And look how cunning he acts. When journalist Chalenko, the author of the interview, asks him: you glorify Savchenko, but they say about her that she took part in torturing people, that she volunteered to join the Aidar battalion, which has a reputation for punitiveness, the cunning Voinovich, who positions considers himself a humanist, goes into unconsciousness - they say, I don’t know anything about this, I’ve only heard some rumors.

"Good position. If in the future he is pinned to the wall for defending the sadistic Savchenko, he will say that he knew nothing about her “glorious” deeds, but if he had known, he would have condemned her as a humanist!

Chalenko asks Voinovich if there is a desire to write a letter to Poroshenko regarding the investigation into the Buzina case, this is his colleague in the writing workshop, but the collaborator directly says that he does not. And we understand perfectly why. The punisher and killer of Russian people, Savchenko, is in the same trench with him, she, together with Voinovich, is fighting against the Russian quilted jackets and Colorados, and Buzina is a real quilted jacket. How, in this case, can dill Voinovich take him under protection?!

When they ask him what he thinks about the Kotsaba case and the Grabovsky case, he pretends that he knows nothing about it. Perhaps he really doesn’t know anything - simply because the fate of some quilted jackets is not interesting to him. For the political dill Voinovich, today’s Ukraine is an outpost of the fight against the vatnic Russia that he hates. All his sympathies are with Kiev and Lvov. Therefore, Crimea will never be Russian for him, so he will bashfully now say nothing bad about Bandera, otherwise, God forbid, the Ukrainian allies will not understand him, so Euromaidan will never be a fascist coup for him.

So, dear readers, take advantage of this opportunity to get to know Voinovich better.

Vladimir Voinovich spent his childhood and youth in Ukraine - in Zaporozhye, where he moved from Tajikistan with his parents just before the war. He remembers the bombing of the city by German aircraft, when they had to hide from the bombs in “cracks,” which were deep trenches dug next to residential buildings.
He lived in Zaporozhye until 1951. Here he not only finished school, but also began working at a factory.
Voinovich knows Ukrainian. I even read Yuri Trifonov’s first story “Students” in Ukrainian.
So for the writer, the topic of Ukraine is not the latest.

– Vladimir Nikolaevich, the parliamentary committee of the Verkhovna Rada is discussing the severance of diplomatic relations between Ukraine and Russia. The issue may be put to a vote of the Verkhovna Rada. How do you personally feel about this initiative of some Ukrainian parliamentarians? Should Ukrainians make such a break?

– I think it’s still not worth it. I assume that this bill will not pass. Hope so. Yes, some actions were committed that were hostile towards Ukraine, and which greatly spoiled relations between the two countries, between our peoples, and within Ukraine and Russia themselves, within different families, there was a division.

But anyway, one way or another, we need to live together and try to smooth it all out. I think that this war is in the crosshairs of the Russian leadership, and they would like to bring it to naught to some acceptable extent without resolving the Crimean issue.

There is no need to break off diplomatic relations, because this will make the situation much worse. Reason and pragmatism must prevail here. And a break would be an unpragmatic step.

– For the writer Vladimir Voinovich, “Crimea is ours” or is Crimea still Ukrainian?

– I’ve already written and spoken about this several times. I treat the annexation of Crimea as an annexation, as an illegal seizure. I have been to Crimea many times and I know that many people there looked with great hope at Russia and treated it with great respect, but it was still a blow to all international agreements, in particular to the Budapest Agreements on Crimea. And in general, all this was done ugly and immoral. In short, for me Crimea is not ours.

When he was Ukrainian, I went to Crimea and felt at home there. You can say: he was ours then. Russia could simply maintain cultural ties with Crimea, even establish some kind of university where teaching would be in Russian, or maintain some kind of cultural centers. It would be possible to cooperate with the Yalta Film Studio.

– That is, Russia needs to return Crimea?

- Well, yes. It needs to be returned, but I can’t imagine how Russia will do it.

– I know that some Russian writers, including members of the PEN Center, signed a letter in defense of Nadezhda Savchenko. You also signed it?

“I not only signed such a letter, but I myself wrote a letter to Vladimir Putin in support of her.

– Why did you decide to support her? What were your motivations?

-Because she was unfairly judged. Because I am a humanist, and if I see that a person is being judged unfairly, especially a woman... This is, firstly. And, secondly, I think that this trial is very stupid, and greatly spoils the image of Russia, and reduces the image of Russia in the eyes of the world community.

– I remember that when Khodorkovsky was in prison, some Russian writers entered into correspondence with him. If I'm not mistaken, these were Boris Strugatsky, Boris Akunin and Lyudmila Ulitskaya. Have you ever thought about entering into correspondence with Savchenko and handing over your books to prison?

- Well, I don’t know how much she needs my books, but, in any case, I was almost in some kind of conditional correspondence with her. My letter to Putin was read to her. I was told that she thanked me. I turned to Nadezhda on the Ukrainian television channel - on the “1+1” channel. I think this is enough on my part. And the books... maybe she won’t want to read them.

- Why not? But about Chonkin? It's also about the army. She's an officer after all.

— (laughs) But she’s an officer, and I’m still talking about a soldier. Besides everything, I’m talking about aviation.

- Chonkin is guarding your corn farm, but Savchenko is still a “pilot.” That's why she'll be interested.

-Chonkin has already been published in the second edition in Ukrainian. So maybe she can read it in Ukrainian if someone passes it on.

– Are you satisfied with this translation? As far as I understand, you speak Ukrainian.

– Yes, yes, I am pleased with the translation of Mikhail Kamenyuk, a writer from Vinnitsa. He tried.

– Many people in Russia think that the campaign in defense of Savchenko has been planned. They say: Washington gave the order, and all as one - opposition-minded Russian writers and public figures, opposition politicians and journalists - stood up in its defense. What would you say to those who think so?

“I don’t want to answer them at all, because it’s patently stupid to see the hand of some foreign enemies here.” I was accused of this many times back in Soviet times, when I wrote Chonkin. They said that I wrote it on instructions from the CIA, the Pentagon or someone else. When I was young, I could take all this to heart, but now I don’t care about it.

I don’t want to explain anything to such people. They do not believe that a person can defend someone out of his heart simply because he is outraged by injustice, and because he empathizes with the victim of this injustice.

– The second argument of your critics and critics of those who, like you, stood up for Savchenko, is the following: Savchenko volunteered for this war, joined the “Aidar” battalion, which has a reputation for punitiveness not only in Russia and Donbass, but also in Ukraine. They also give examples of torture in which Aidar members participated. Yes, and they accuse Savchenko of the fact that she, for example, participated in the torture of an Orthodox priest. Are you aware of these reproaches, and if so, what do you think about it?

– You know what, I don’t know anything about Aidar except the rumors that have reached me. I won’t say anything at all about Aidar.

As for Savchenko, I just don’t know what she is like. Even “1+1” asked me: “What do you think about Savchenko running for president?” I told them that I didn’t think anything good about this.

I know her as a heroine, but what kind of president she is... For this to happen, there must be completely different qualities, completely different from the heroic ones. Heroes can be good people, smart people, but they can also be stupid. I know Savchenko as a determined person, as a staunch heroine, judging by the way she carries herself.

In addition, I listen carefully and read what her defenders say about her. I know all the evidence of her innocence. They seem reliable to me. It also seems to me that the charges for which she was arrested were made up.

As for the fact that she tortured someone, if this is proven, then this is a war crime, and she must be tried for this. I don’t know which court should judge her – Ukrainian or Russian. Maybe international, maybe she should be sent to The Hague if that’s what she was doing.

But since I know that in our country they can say whatever they want to people they don’t like, they can be accused of the most deadly sins, as it once happened to me, I don’t take their word for it.

If she really tortured helpless people, then she deserves to be tried in The Hague, but that is not what she is being tried for. And I don’t believe what she’s being judged for. Is it clear now?

– Literally soon – April 16 – will be the anniversary of the murder of the writer Oles Buzina by Ukrainian nationalists in Kyiv. Have you studied the circumstances of this case? Would you like to send a letter to President Poroshenko so that Oles’ killers are punished, just like you sent a letter to Putin about Savchenko?

- No, no, I'm not going to apply. Although if Elderberry’s killers are found and their guilt is proven, then they must be punished. What will I appeal to... If I knew that Poroshenko was ready to acquit them, then I could appeal: the murderers must be punished. Or I would have expressed my opinion somehow differently.

I don’t know Elderberry much. I saw him once in some program. But no matter what it is, murder is murder. This is a terrible crime for which there is no forgiveness.

- How can I agree with this... This is the first time I’ve heard your words and I don’t know anything about this matter.

– What do you think about the murder of the Ukrainian lawyer Grabovsky? Some believe that Ukrainian nationalists are also behind the murder, others believe that the SBU. Some believe that because the suspects in Buzina’s murder were treated “humanely,” and that this impunity subsequently led to the murder of the lawyer.

– I don’t know again... I can’t talk about what I don’t know. I know that Grabovsky defended Alexandrov. I don’t know who needed to get rid of him. I can’t say anything, I’m still not an investigator. The suspects are said to have been arrested. Here, too, I believe that whoever did this, and for what reasons he did it - whether Grabovsky was defending a Russian, American or Ukrainian serviceman - is a bandit who does not deserve the slightest leniency.

– Five years ago, you were against the rehabilitation of the UPA and called Yushchenko’s awarding the title of Hero of Ukraine to Stepan Bandera disgusting. Has your opinion about these things changed now or remains the same?

– You know what, there is so much speculation about his name now. Many blame the Ukrainians: they say, here you have Bandera. And we have been trying for 60 years to rehabilitate Stalin. And Stalin was a bandit worse than Bandera and Shukhevych, and all their henchmen combined. Therefore, what will I talk about Bandera. I once said and said. This is my opinion as an outsider.

I don’t know enough about Bandera’s activities, and besides, when such wars go on, everyone is good there. He probably committed some crimes, and some may be attributed to him. I don't know all this. The figure of Stalin worries me much more.

All attempts to rehabilitate this flayer worry me much more than the rehabilitation of Bandera. I think that politically the rehabilitation of Bandera was done stupidly, but I will go into it.

– In 2014, the world learned the word “Novorossiya”. It began to mean what had previously been called “South-East of Ukraine”. Supporters of the idea of ​​Novorossiya believed that this territory should either become a state independent from Ukraine, or become part of Russia - like Crimea. How do you personally feel about the idea of ​​Novorossiya?

– I would really like for us all to live together, but we would live peacefully, in good agreement, although Ukrainians perceive those who say this as an aggressor.

I have an extremely negative attitude towards attempts to redistribute borders... New Russia... By the way, when I was in exile, I met many emigrants who said that there never was and is no Ukraine, but there is Little Russia. One old emigrant said that they don’t even have their own language.

– What did you answer to this?

– If you listen to Ukrainian speech, you will not understand a single word.

– Right now in Ukraine at the Yuzhmash plant, which produced the famous missiles of Academician Yangel, workers work once a week, and in Kyiv the famous Antonov Design Bureau is completely buried. Ukraine is deindustrializing. Do you think European integration will help breathe life into Yuzhmash and make sure that the Antonov Design Bureau reopens?

– I will express to you my absolutely amateurish opinion. Two years ago I was in Zaporozhye at an aluminum plant where I once worked. There is complete desolation, everything is standing, everything is overgrown with grass. And it is not known why there is some kind of security, what some kind of management is doing there. In my opinion, she doesn't do anything at all.

You see, a post-industrial revolution is happening. Factories are closing not only in Ukraine, but also in America - a steel plant in Cleveland, an automobile plant in Detroit. And if earlier it was important to smelt a lot of cast iron and steel, now some other materials are important.

– Some believe that a fascist coup took place in Ukraine in February 2014, others believe that it was a “revolution of dignity.” How did you evaluate these events?

– I don’t think that there was a fascist coup in Ukraine. I generally do not accept these words “fascist coup”, “junta”. I don’t know if it can be called a “revolution of dignity,” but I think that yes, there was a revolution.

I am far from happy with everything that is happening in Ukraine. I treated what happened in Ukraine with great hope. I thought that Yanukovych’s power had been overthrown, and that there would probably be some big changes, but so far Ukraine is developing very slowly, and I don’t know how it will all end in the end.

But, in any case, I am not indifferent to what is happening there now, and I would like the end result of this revolution to be good.