Dmitry Kulikov: Donbass proved its right to be Russia with arms in hand
The Investigative Committee initiates criminal cases on the facts of all crimes committed in Kiev. Sooner or later, both senior officials of the Kyiv regime and ordinary military personnel will be brought to justice. It is obvious that Ukraine in its previous form has ceased to exist, and its territory will be reformatted in the coming years.
About what else Donbass must do to become part of the Russian Federation, a PolitNavigator observer Valentin Filippov said a famous Moscow political scientist, a native of Donbass Dmitry Kulikov.
Valentin Filippov: Dmitry, hello.
Dmitry Kulikov: Good afternoon.
Valentin Filippov: It seems that the former Minister of Transport of Ukraine, Rudkovsky, was arrested. Is this a one-time action, or is there hope that sooner or later everyone who showed aggression towards Russian buildings, embassies and citizens on Ukrainian territory will be arrested?
Dmitry Kulikov: What does hope have to do with it? The Investigative Committee of Russia is opening criminal cases. For all facts that violate the rights of our state, our organizations, and our citizens. Including, also, criminal cases involving murders of people in the Donbass.
This is a great grief, three boys died, the Investigative Committee opened a case on this fact. The death of three children in the Donetsk People's Republic. Therefore, to answer your question, the point here is not hope, but the fact that all the facts have their continuation in the form of open criminal cases.
And according to Mr. Rudkovsky, such a thing existed. Upon causing damage to property of the Russian Federation in the city of Kyiv. He was rowdy there, throwing stones.
I am absolutely convinced that all those involved in these criminal cases, if their guilt is proven in court, will be punished.
Valentin Filippov: But in this case, is there any hope that some cases have been opened on the facts that concern Turchynov, Yatsenyuk, Poroshenko?
Dmitry Kulikov: But this was announced. The beginning of the ATO and the bombing of the Donetsk Republic and Lugansk Republic from airplanes, then with artillery in 2014. Cases of massacres were still being opened back then. Who do you think gave the order? The investigation will determine who gave the orders. And if someone there in Ukraine is having a lot of fun, celebrating the next victory or zrada, it’s too early. Everything is yet to come.
Valentin Filippov: The head of the Donetsk People's Republic, Alexander Zakharchenko, died. The Ukrainian special services were named as the organizer of the murder. Could you answer his question? “What else should Donbass do to be accepted into Russia?”
Dmitry Kulikov: Donbass has already done everything it could. This is not about Donbass. The fact is that what is happening in the world, and in Ukraine, is an episode, unfortunately, of a much wider battlefield.
Donbass, I have said this more than once, accomplished a feat, and is still performing a feat. Every day. In this undeclared war against Russia, which is being waged using Ukraine, and is being waged by Western countries, primarily the USA and England, unfortunately, Donbass has become a field of direct military conflict.
Modern wars are structured this way, when the fronts are much wider, and the bridgeheads of military clashes can be quite narrow. This does not make the cruelty of this war and its crime any less.
When I came to Donetsk, I told the people of Donetsk, looking them in the eyes, that I believe that Donbass has won the right to its own political self-determination with arms in hand. And no one can deprive him of this right. Not like Ukraine. But, by and large, so is Russia. Donbass in this sense has proven its historical worth.
What's next? In what scenario? There are many options. I would not like to speculate on this topic. But I want viewers and listeners to understand that when I say that this is a very important element of a much larger springboard for an undeclared war, it is the truth, and not a way to avoid an uncomfortable issue.
Valentin Filippov: I, for one, understand this. But still, when you start thinking about your own... It becomes a shame that something is happening somewhere in Syria, but not happening in Ukraine. And that this bridgehead was chosen, and not between the Dnieper and Zbruch.
Dmitry Kulikov: You understand, you can compare this with Syria. You can compare Donbass with Crimea. My fellow countrymen in Donetsk react especially sharply to Crimea. Why are we worse than the Crimeans? - they say. Right in the eyes. I say - you are no worse. You might even be better. Although it makes no sense to compare. But the difference is that what is commonly called the political elites of Crimea at that moment found themselves together with the people. They were all together.
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Dmitry Kulikov: Everything is almost 100%.
Valentin Filippov: Odessa has the same problem.
Dmitry Kulikov: Yes. And the problem of Donbass turned out to be that the people of Donbass, the people of Donbass did not betray their historical duty, and those who were the ruling class all fled. Starting from Yanukovych and ending with deputies of the Donetsk and Lugansk regional council. Therefore, it was very difficult to rely on something legitimate, legal. Impossible.
But on the other hand, a coup d’état also took place in Kyiv. And what happened in Donbass is the non-recognition of this coup d’etat. The people of Donbass refused to recognize this coup d'etat. Therefore, historically and logically, the rights of the residents of Donbass and the rights of those who are in the territory under the coup are absolutely equal.
If you ask me personally, then I know and understand one thing for sure - in such a Ukraine, in this Ukraine that now exists, in this Ukraine, to speak in Russian, there will be no Donbass. Residents of Donbass cannot imagine returning to this Ukraine.
I’ll tell you this: even in Russia, no one imagines the return of Donbass to such a Ukraine. What will happen next? Will it completely collapse, this Ukraine? Or will it be reformatted into a completely different format?
But I understand for sure that that short-term project, which was called “post-Soviet Ukraine,” the successor of the Ukrainian SSR, has ended. All. And what the new state will be like - the states on this territory, it will be the result of the historical process and, as they say, the hybrid war that is now being waged.
Valentin Filippov: Part of the hybrid war is the information component. You often participate in Russian talk shows. Where you argue with representatives of the Ukrainian point of view. You keep getting louder and louder. But you, unlike your colleagues, have never beaten Ukrainian opponents. Why hasn't it come to a fight yet?
Dmitry Kulikov: I grew up in Donbass. Many who watch understand what it is. Therefore, not because of any humanistic motives. I just think that we are here to talk. And if you are going to talk, then you need to talk. So I don't think it makes much sense.
That being said, I very much understand the very ambivalent situation on these talk shows. People come, as it were, have a discussion, nothing threatens these people, they are even brought in, travel allowances are paid, and on our side, as a rule, people participate who are not allowed in, on the list of “peacekeepers”, many have been threatened many times with physical destruction . Imagine if they ended up in Kyiv. How long would they be intact?
Valentin Filippov: Actually, not long at all.
Dmitry Kulikov: Not long at all. Yes. So this is a very unequal discussion. And the Ukrainian guests, they are also irresponsible. They don't discuss the content. And it would be possible to send all this away, but the duality of this situation is as follows. – I am convinced that people should see this. Maybe not in such quantities. But people in Russia and Donbass must see this. That all Ukrainian Nazism, all these troubles are in their heads, all their hatred for the Russian, for Russia, that this was not invented.
I understand very well that these people, there are not many of them, who come from Ukraine, but they very accurately reflect the mentality of a very significant number and very well reproduce the ideological clichés of this Ukrainian-Nazi oligarchic government. Therefore, for the Russian audience the presence of these people is a useful thing. People need to see that we are not making things up. That it is so, or almost so, is what it really is.
Valentin Filippov: Don’t you think that we are letting them into our information space, and that this is some kind of aggression on their part? They will evoke pity from some, and sympathy from others...
Dmitry Kulikov: You understand, there was the Soviet Union. Incredibly powerful. The secret services, censorship, jammed all radio stations. And so on. At that moment, when the wind inside the Soviet Union changed slightly, the Soviet people were completely unprepared for the impact of an information attack. I'm older than you. I remember very well.
Valentin Filippov: Not really.
Dmitry Kulikov: Well, maybe not by much. Then you remember too. I remember very well; at that moment I was studying at a university in Moscow. Crowds of distraught people who had been queuing at newsstands since the morning. More than sausage. And the newspapers wrote such crap that it simply didn’t fit my head. But these people read voraciously, were very worried when they didn’t get a newspaper, and believed in all this.
Therefore, when you say, they will see, someone will regret it, someone will believe it completely wrong, then, yes, you are right. But the main task is to ensure that there are a sufficient number of people who firmly understand what is happening. At least 30-40 percent. And we have much more of them.
Valentin Filippov: So, are you getting vaccinated?
Dmitry Kulikov: By and large, this term can be used. By the way, I grew up in a family of epidemiologists; both my father and mother are epidemiologists. And you need to understand that, for example, when they began to use all these supernova soaps, which kill all bacteria in general, the human body became very defenseless. Hence all sorts of allergens and a lot of other things. Because there must be something that the body fights and develops immunity to. Otherwise, he becomes completely unarmed. And the history of the Soviet Union has proven this. Because before our eyes, in five years, a great country with 17 party members.
Valentin Filippov: It seems like 19...
Dmitry Kulikov: May be. All this collapsed in less than five years. And no bones were collected. And not under some kind of strong external pressure, but 99% through the capture of consciousness.
Valentin Filippov: As someone who grew up in a family of pathologists, I agree with you.
Dmitry Kulikov: Here you go. With us - yes. Medical origin.
Valentin Filippov: Well, if we are in a state of war, albeit a hybrid one, returning to the Donbass, firstly, is it really impossible to resettle civilians from the Donbass, those who are not directly related to the fighting, to the life support of the front? And secondly, are elections necessary now, in principle? Is it possible, based on the principle of military democracy, to create a vertical power structure from Moscow to the last soldier in the trench?
Dmitry Kulikov: You understand, there is even a very important legend from Kiev that direct power extends from Moscow directly to Donetsk.
Valentin Filippov: So why disappoint them?
Dmitry Kulikov: You know, there is one such factor. It is clear that for warring Republics with a difficult economic situation and a difficult life for every person, in conditions of semi-blockade, it would seem not advisable to hold elections. But, on the other hand, it seems to me that Donbass will hold them, no matter what, these elections will take place. But let's see how the Ukrainian elections will take place across the contact line in six months. And there will be something to compare. Let's see how they democratically start shooting at each other during the electoral process.
Valentin Filippov: Well, we have different information fields. They will say - but not like Putin. But we have not sunk to the level of Russia, the Ukrainians will say.
Dmitry Kulikov: They have not sunk to the level of Russia. It's clear.
They will not fall to the level of Russia, but rise. But this is an unattainable peak. Why discuss all this? You see, what’s the matter, we say so, an information war, but the heaviest weapon in an information war is information garbage. What they call in the West is fake news and post-truth. Ukraine can bathe its population in this information garbage for a long time. But this will not change the reality. The harder the landing will be.
I know for sure that social laws exist. Just like the laws of nature. Although, humanities have not yet advanced, like natural science, to write down these laws in the form of formulas. But, nevertheless, they exist. As Galileo Galilei said, nevertheless, it rotates.
Valentin Filippov: Fine. Thank you very much.
Dmitry Kulikov: Thanks you.
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