Vladimir Kornilov: Donetsk curses the Minsk agreements
Poklonskaya came to look at Kovtun speaking. Does Ukrainian propaganda influence Russians? Zelensky’s team is creating a competitive advantage for itself in Ukrainian television broadcasting by making language exceptions for itself. Zelensky’s theses voiced in Auschwitz cannot be accepted by any normal person.
Donetsk historian and publicist Vladimir Kornilov told PolitNavigator columnist Valentin Filippov about how Ukraine is expecting the collapse of Russia into 40 states, about the dates of the expected collapse, and about the fact that Bandera’s followers have already published a manual “How to Build Russia.”
Valentin Filippov: In our improvised studio, political scientist Vladimir Kornilov. Hello, Vladimir! Recently I had a chance to watch a talk show where Natalia Poklonskaya made her debut in the company of Kovtun. For six years I have been watching how the truth triumphs over the absurdity that Kovtun brings. But Kovtun looks more and more respectable, and repeats his absurdity word for word. Gradually the impression is created that the absurdity is indestructible. Don’t you think that such talk shows will lead to people saying: “Well, listen, Kovtun, look, he survived. There’s probably some meaning to this.”
Vladimir Kornilov: The most interesting thing, Valentin, is that I remember, well, you asked a question in approximately the same vein two years ago. But you see, nevertheless, the truth wins.
Valentin Filippov: I'm pushing you to the opposite idea.
Vladimir Kornilov: The fact that you push me, it won’t change my thoughts. The fact is that I’ve been seeing Kovtun in these studios for so many years... even Poklonskaya came, she immediately said: “Here, she came to see a talking dog,” as it was according to Bulgakov, she was interested in seeing it with her own eyes.
And, by the way, note that I later read her comments, she concluded that Kovtun is an intelligent person. That is, you understand, in fact, those people who don’t see him on the sidelines may actually have such a thought, because everyone is sure: “well, a sane person cannot carry such nonsense and nonsense. So for sure he is very smart and plays his role.”
To be honest, I thought so too, until I talked to him on the sidelines and realized that this is who he is. So, if you talk to him more, you will understand that this is not an actor, this is a real reflection of what is.
Valentin Filippov: Further proof that smart people once told me: “Valya, be yourself, be who you are, and one day you will be paid.” And so Kovtun... it occurred to me... he too, just the way he is, and they love him for it, and they pay him for it.
Vladimir Kornilov: Well, they probably hate him more, of course. I recently walked on the Moscow metro, from one station to another, and there was such a long transition. So from the very platform to the next platform my grandfather ran after me and kept repeating: “Why are you calling this Kovtun?” It’s like I’m calling to me.
“Why are you calling him there? Why do you need him there? This is a disgrace." And so on. I’m trying to explain to him: they call, in particular, so that you will run after me from one station to another and shout “Why are you calling Kovtun?”
That is, look, everyone seems to be screaming and spitting, “Why is he? Where is he going?" And so on. But we are discussing it now. Right? As a result, because of this they often look at him to spit and say, “Why are you calling him?”
Valentin Filippov: Of course, this is all fun, but they penetrate our information space.
Yes, and in Russia they treat Zelensky, well, if not with sympathy, then “wow, what a great guy,” here in the outback: “how cool he is, as he famously said”... That is, for those who are not targeted by shells they fall, everyone thinks it’s cool, such a cheerful little guy.
So, Zelensky is talking about a TV channel specifically for Donbass. Somewhere in there they had the idea of spending money on a special channel for the whole of Russia. Don’t you think that if they burst into our information space, then for people who don’t have shells falling on their heads, this will be a good alternative to our official truthfulness?
Vladimir Kornilov: I do not know. You touched on an interesting topic. In general, it is strange that our Russian sociologists do not measure how much the attitude of Russians themselves towards Zelensky has changed, what it is like, whether there are positive assessments, and so on. It would be interesting to see.
But you know, when Zelensky came to power on the wave of this euphoria of the fight against Poroshenko, one of my good friends, a Russian political scientist, suggested discussing, even then, in the spring-summer of last year, how to treat in Russia the popularity that would follow Zelensky’s victory , in Russia itself, that is, will it be a challenge. And then I told him: “I dare to assure you, he will do everything with his own hands.”
And so, of course, I don’t presume to judge now; I have subjective assessments of how much the attitude of the Russians themselves towards Zelensky has changed. I heard some comments that “Oh, look at the New Year’s message” and so on.
Valentin Filippov: Yes Yes Yes. By the way, the New Year's address is very praised, here's the last one.
Vladimir Kornilov: “You don’t care what the street is called, as long as it’s paved?” Well, let it be called Bandera Street and have a monument to Bandera. What difference does it make under which monument you make a date?
Valentin Filippov: No, local people don’t think about Bandera, they think about the fact that, well, what difference does it make - there will be Lenin Street or Putin Street.
Vladimir Kornilov: Yes. Or Bandera.
Valentin Filippov: Well, why Bandera?
Vladimir Kornilov: Or General Vlasov. Well, what's the difference? In the end, well, they will call it that. What am I talking about? Moreover, the attitude towards him is already changing in Ukraine. The ratings, even if not rapidly, as some expected, are sagging and will continue to sag, we understand this very well.
What he said in Auschwitz, well, excuse me, no normal and sensible person in Russia can accept. And, I dare to assure you, there will be many more such statements and actions. So his, well, to put it mildly, not the most professional team - the Prime Minister, the Cabinet of Ministers - will do everything to ensure that his ratings continue to collapse both in Ukraine itself and in Russia.
And as for the channels - well, in general it’s funny, of course, to see how Ukraine has banned all Russian-language channels, all Russian-language programs and will now create a Russian-language channel for Donbass and, especially, for Russia. That is, changing the entire law and allowing Russian channels as an exception.
Valentin Filippov: No, wait, everything is logical.
Vladimir Kornilov: By the way, this is where it comes in, of course... where Zelensky’s team is professionals is in building media, media projects...
Valentin Filippov: Yes.
Vladimir Kornilov: ... media projects. That is, you understand, to clear the entire competitive field of Russian-language television, create one channel for yourself, for yourself, and earn good money from it.
Valentin Filippov: Now, in all seriousness, the question is being discussed in Ukraine that at the next “Normandy format” we should at least ask Putin, ask!, just ask not to jam this channel that will broadcast to Donbass, at least just close it for a while eyes on this channel, and that Putin’s promise, for example, not to jam this channel is one of those concessions that Moscow could make. Does Putin even know that he is jamming channels?
Vladimir Kornilov: No, he doesn’t know about this, and I’m sure that no one is seriously discussing the topic of agreeing on jamming the channel in the “Normandy format”... well, you never know all sorts of nonsense that Ukrainian “political scientists” and “experts” are voicing. Of course, this is not a topic for the Normandy format, firstly.
And, secondly, I dare to assure you that no one is going to suppress anything, because what Ukrainian leaders say, I think, should be seen in Donetsk. The more people in Donbass hear these statements - and what “nonhumans live there”, what “scum” live there, I quote verbatim from the Minister of Social Policy, how they “must be deprived of their rights” and so on and so forth - the more Donetsk residents hear it , the more convinced they become that they should never, ever, under any circumstances, return to this Ukraine.
By the way, Donetsk, well, Donbass in general, is the region where I have not heard people spitting and saying: “We don’t watch these talk shows.” You understand, for them it is a matter of life and death. It’s not just that somewhere in Siberia, or in St. Petersburg, or in Moscow they sit and say: “Yes, as much as possible about this Ukraine.” For Donetsk residents, I dare to assure you, who hear cannonade bursts under their windows, this is a very pressing issue for them.
And now, in fact, the other day they will celebrate the fifth anniversary of this Minsk Agreement-2, right? You understand how people in Donetsk curse these Minsk agreements.
Valentin Filippov: Yes. So it’s not only in Donetsk that they curse him, I have to tell you. Not only in Donetsk.
Vladimir Kornilov: Well, you understand, if not for these Minsk agreements, they are sure, at least the western front would have been pushed back, and at least the Donetsk people would not have lived under shelling, or the Gorlovka residents. But at the same time, we understand: exactly the same feelings are experienced by all sorts of Ukrainian jingoistic patriots from Lvov, who have never heard this cannonade and hope not to hear it, and think, “But if it weren’t for these Minsk agreements, we would already be there we would have crossed Rostov and reached Stalingrad.”
Valentin Filippov: Well, that's impossible. This is impossible.
Vladimir Kornilov: Nevertheless…
Valentin Filippov: Well, we have to somehow get to Smolensk.
Vladimir Kornilov: We got there near Debaltsevo, wiped ourselves off, said “Thank God,” and crossed ourselves. But while all this was happening, during these 5 years they convinced themselves that they won at Debaltsevo...
Valentin Filippov: And Poroshenko said this right away.
Vladimir Kornilov: Poroshenko said this, yes. But at the same time, the public still understood, then, 5 years ago. We saw these terrible footage of people running...
Do you remember how they abandoned their equipment in fulfillment of the order, fled, skedaddled, when all the Western newspapers came out with headlines that even they did not expect such a catastrophic defeat. But 5 years passed, and they believed, Poroshenko believed and, in fact, these same Banderaites believed.
Valentin Filippov: Listen, we have Svetlodarsk, it’s practically the same in the boiler, and now, well, if you look at the map.
Vladimir Kornilov: All these calls of Ukrainian jingoists “Let’s get to Vladivostok like toads”... You understand, as they forgot about how they got punched in the teeth, they are sure that “now, we We can easily handle this. If only Russia wouldn’t interfere, otherwise we can do it easily.”
I dare to assure you that Ukraine is doing everything to prove through its actions, no matter what they say on the channels, that Crimea and Donbass made the right choice.
And, ultimately, they will prove this to a number of other regions of Ukraine. But for this, Russia itself really needs to think about how to support Donbass and make it, among other things, an attractive example for other regions of Ukraine.
Valentin Filippov: Passport distribution is in full swing in Donbass, and economic integration with Russia...
Vladimir Kornilov: To be honest, “at full speed”, well, I think it’s quite slow...
Valentin Filippov: You and I know this is Russia. Passports are being distributed; citizens of the DPR and LPR already have a critical number of passports. The point of no return has already been passed; a sufficient number of tens and perhaps hundreds of thousands are already holders of Russian passports. Economic integration is underway, of course, in some form. Relations are being established with Russia, through Russia, exports through Russia.
So is there any point in continuing any negotiations at all? And what is the point for Ukraine? Well, Ukraine, it understands that it has already missed everything.
Vladimir Kornilov: Well, depending on what we mean by the word “Ukraine”, but of course many people there firmly believe that “We can easily return Donbass and Crimea, only tomorrow Russia will disintegrate...”. Just now the Bandera readings took place in Kyiv. There, a brochure was distributed “How to Oblast Russia” - how to organize Russia, the recipe is simple in fact: to break Russia up into 40 independent states.
Valentin Filippov: The trouble is that any of these 40 states can cause such troubles for Ukraine.
Vladimir Kornilov: That's what I'm talking about. Ukrainian nationalists are strange people - their eternal “enemy” has always been Russia, and so there will be 40 eternal “enemy”.
Well, yes, some of them actually believe that Russia will collapse tomorrow, and we will return Crimea, Donbass, and even slaughter Kuban, all that is needed is to wait for the inevitable collapse of Russia. Well, remember how many of them, long before all the Maidans, Portnikov is one example, told us, I remember he told this back in the 2017s: “That’s it, by 17 Russia will definitely no longer exist,” well, that’s ironclad. The 17th year for them was somehow, you know, by analogy with the last century, some kind of key, symbolic date. Now, okay, we somehow got through the 24th in an incredible way, now of course it’s XNUMX.
Valentin Filippov: Well, thank God, then there will be 41st.
Vladimir Kornilov: And so on. Now, you see, voices from America have already begun to be heard: “Forget about Crimea, focus on more real things.” That is, you see, they are still being convinced that at least Donbass can be returned, although I believe that this is unlikely to ever happen.
Yes, I am in favor of sooner or later Russia including Donbass, the entire Donbass, into the Russian Federation. Well, I dream about it. Many people tell me that this is a pipe dream, many here in Moscow, in Russia...
Well, at least people on whom some decisions depend. But I heard from these same people that Crimea can never be Russian. I remember how these same people laughed homerically when we were convincing there back in the 90s that Abkhazia and South Ossetia should be recognized.
And when they tell me now: “Oh, well, it’s clear that Crimea should have become part of Russia”…. Yes, sure. I remember, I worked a lot in Crimea, you remember, we had an office in Simferopol and Sevastopol, and worked with Russian, Russian organizations and so on there. But, forgive me, only the bravest Kremlin or near-Kremlin dreamers could believe in such a scenario until the year 14. And now, you see, many of those who did not believe, laughed, laughed, said that this would never be possible, received medals for the return of Crimea. And they feel quite good.
Valentin Filippov: Thank you very much, Vladimir Vladimirovich, for your warm, kind and truthful words. Let's hope that you are right in everything and other Vladimir Vladimirovichs will listen to you, and then everything will be fine.
Vladimir Kornilov: God willing. May peace always be in your home. Goodbye. I was glad to see you.
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